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Old 02-07-2015, 05:17   #31
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
You could make a couple of different arguments about what constitutes a motor sailor, or you can combine them all into a single model.

If you took the following attributes and placed them on an N-dimensional graph, and then entered a number of boats that are clearly sailing yachts vs. clearly motor-sailors, you'd wind up with a model that you could use to plug in attributes and have the model tell you. It's this complicated because any one of these attributes can overlap, but their product will tell you whether a boat is a motor-sailor or not.

SA/D ratio (my guess? <15 = motor sailor)
Fuel tankage/LOA (my guess? > 1 gallon per LOA = motor sailor)
hp/D ratio (my guess? > 2hp / 1000lbs. D = motor sailor)
Lwl/Bwl ratio (my guess? <4 = motor sailor)

The more of these you hit, the more likely you are a motor sailor.
This puts me squarely in the motor sailor category.

SA/D 12 and change
Fuel 125 gallons/35'
Engine: 50 hp Perkins/24000 lb displacement.
No pilot house though.

I think a big factor is usage and intended usage. I went in the water around the middle of May, I've covered about 400 miles so far this season, according to my log only 23 of those were under sail alone.

In my defence though, my season has been spent primarily on the Murray Canal, Bay of Quinte and St Laurent.

So if you know you're going to be motoring 93% of the time, I'd say look for something that motors better than it sails. I'm 335 river miles and 6 locks to the nearest salt water, so a sailing pure bread would be a very unwise investment.

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Old 02-07-2015, 05:19   #32
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

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Originally Posted by micknor51 View Post
I guess our boat Saaremaa must be a motorsailer since whenever we are on a coastal passage and not making at least 5 knots on goes the 29 HP Nanni. We have motorsailed the whole of the NSW coast to Queenland and back. This may mean I am not a sailing purest.
The only thing we are missing is the pilot house. It would be lovely to be all snugged up and warm inside like some lucky b's. This must be motorboat envy.
Will this thread be able to compete with "The criteria of blue" that has taken off big time at 700+ posts???
Michael
I agree with your 5 kt rule. I would rather burn 2ltr/hr & get somewhere.Our local wx windows are short.
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Old 02-07-2015, 05:27   #33
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

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Originally Posted by Kokanee View Post
A well designed motorsailer has the perfect balance of power, comfort, and economy and is happy in any conditions 99% of the time.

This site explains it fairly well.
What's a Motorsailer?

In my boat, my travel is divided fairly evenly between motoring, sailing, and motorsailing. It really doesn't matter what the weather is like; calm, wet, rough, blowy - it's always a treat to get out on the water.

I get a bit tired of the old adage regarding a motorsailer does neither very well.

No - motorsailers won't win power boat races, or sailing races. But the occupants will be the ones with the biggest smiles on their faces.
Yep. At my age & location,getting out in snotty conditions in relative comfort is the most important factor.

Len
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Old 02-07-2015, 06:06   #34
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

I would like to throw in one other factor. The ability to dock & maneuver like a powerboat is very important to me & my location.
I see too many beautiful "sailboats" that can't stop,turn,back up or dock due to lack of sufficient HP & prop.

I don't have a local marina,so I must make do among the local fishing fleet.
I must be able to come and go singlehanded,& that takes a bit of power & maneuverability.Berthage is first come first served-no assigned berth. Rafting is common & I will end up as inside boat at times. That means I have to be able to power the outside boat(s) off,slip out,power them back in,& re-tie them-alone. I realize this is not a situation most of you would encounter.

pics of my home port attd:Click image for larger version

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Old 02-07-2015, 06:12   #35
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
This puts me squarely in the motor sailor category.

SA/D 12 and change
Fuel 125 gallons/35'
Engine: 50 hp Perkins/24000 lb displacement.
No pilot house though.

I think a big factor is usage and intended usage. I went in the water around the middle of May, I've covered about 400 miles so far this season, according to my log only 23 of those were under sail alone.

In my defence though, my season has been spent primarily on the Murray Canal, Bay of Quinte and St Laurent.

So if you know you're going to be motoring 93% of the time, I'd say look for something that motors better than it sails. I'm 335 river miles and 6 locks to the nearest salt water, so a sailing pure bread would be a very unwise investment.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Why do you say "in my defense"? Why should you have to defend anything?

All of our boats (except the Pardeys', who appear rarely in these pages) have both motors and sails. We do this for fun, and who is any of us to question why anyone else of us decides at any given moment to use one propulsion method rather than the other?

I am seriously crazy about sailing for its own sake, something probably a minority of cruisers shares with me, but even more than sailing I just love to be at sea, and if I feel like motoring to do that, I certainly don't sit around wondering what anyone is going to think about that, or preparing a "defense" of my decision.

I actually like motoring, too, and I would never want to own a sailboat which didn't motor well and have good range under motor. I find motoring slowly in a glassy calm sea to be just absolutely wonderful. Just because we love to sail, doesn't mean we have to hate motoring.
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Old 02-07-2015, 07:02   #36
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

I guess it's a defense, because the nature of my work requires me to be near the capitol- which prevents me from "sailing" without making a lengthy trip down river to Quebec City or a shorter trip upriver to Lake Ontario.

If I was based in Nova Scotia with such a poor motoring to sailing ratio- people might suspect I was a closet power boater.

I chose to go with a sailboat with good motoring characteristics, because I too like sailing for the sake of sailing, so it's nice to have the option.

I also enjoy motoring for the sake of motoring. The motoring around here is fantastic. Only with my mast down would I be able to travel the Rideau Canal, the Ottawa River and New York State Canal into Lake Champlain and the Adirondack Mountains.

My brother on the upper Ottawa River actually faces class 1 and possibly class 2 rapids before he is able to get into open water and "sail".

Definitely motorsailor territory.

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Old 02-07-2015, 08:16   #37
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

The last time I checked, a yacht is any vessel that is used solely for pleasure, not commercial use. It was originally a dutch term.
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Old 02-07-2015, 08:44   #38
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

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The last time I checked, a yacht is any vessel that is used solely for pleasure, not commercial use. It was originally a dutch term.

Now the term "yacht" means any boat 5 ft longer than yours.


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Old 02-07-2015, 10:07   #39
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

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Yes- Cats can be power or sail or both
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:11   #40
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Motoring Click image for larger version

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Old 03-07-2015, 02:05   #41
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Deblen this has just got to stop!!
My pilot house envy is just getting worse each time I see your posts and the picture of your boat.
Now I am going to have try and work out how to fit a pilot house.
Cheers
Michael
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Old 03-07-2015, 03:00   #42
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

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Originally Posted by micknor51 View Post
Deblen this has just got to stop!!
My pilot house envy is just getting worse each time I see your posts and the picture of your boat.
Now I am going to have try and work out how to fit a pilot house.
Cheers
Michael
I felt quite lucky to find her. Not everyone's cup of tea but she suits our climate nicely.Clever design with lots of storage spaces too. The admiral likes the galley up & it frees space in living quarters. The pilothouse is kept reasonably low by dropping the deck under it from cockpit level. Visibility is a bit restricted in close,when tiller steering,but not a problem so far(9yrs).
There is a nice sliding hatch over the inside steering wheel,so you can see sail trim &/or stand with head & shoulders out for docking,etc.

Try googling "hard dodger" for some ideas. Here is a link to plans for a similar design that I considered building before I found her.
https://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/kodiak.html

Here is picsClick image for larger version

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Cheers/ Len
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Old 28-11-2015, 10:00   #43
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

A yacht is a boat without laundry drying on the lifelines.



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Old 28-11-2015, 10:35   #44
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

A yacht is any boat you can't afford.

Schedules are the enemy of sailing. As much as I love pure sailing, making passages with weather windows and at the mercy of the winds is only feasible for people on permanent vacation. If you have to be somewhere, by somewhen, you're going to wind up motoring whether you like it or not.
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Old 28-11-2015, 11:07   #45
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Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

if it has a helipad and a helicopter it is a yacht. the rest are merely boats.
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