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Old 16-04-2013, 15:43   #31
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pirate Re: Yacht Broaches

Pictures from beach where boat beached... rocks lead to entrance..



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Old 16-04-2013, 18:13   #32
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Never underestimate the siren call of a " safe port" particularly to an under experienced crew in frightening conditions. I've seen of too many times by this stage.

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Old 16-04-2013, 18:15   #33
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Re: Yacht Broaches

We've just had a fishing boat broach on a calm day with tragic loss of life.
River bars with unlimited fetch can be quite a trap, if the underwater topology amplifies certain waveforms/wavelengths at a critical threshold.

Because ground swells are composed of multiple underlying wavetrains, they can cyclically produce the 'bad' combination, and sometimes the cycle is so long that even stooging around for half an hour might not reveal it.
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Old 16-04-2013, 19:05   #34
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Re: Yacht Broaches

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Never underestimate the siren call of a " safe port" particularly to an under experienced crew in frightening conditions. I've seen of too many times by this stage.

Dave
Indeed the temptation to be kicking back in the calm waters behind the jetties is strong. Especially after being beat up outside. Though when the harbormaster says it's closed better take that to heart and head back out into the open sea like Time Bandit did.
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Old 16-04-2013, 19:58   #35
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Re: Yacht Broaches

I visited figuiera da foz last year, there were lots of warnings in the guides about the bars and rough conditions, its strange that an experienced skipper would try to enter in such conditions.
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Old 17-04-2013, 06:18   #36
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pirate Re: Yacht Broaches

Its been mentioned about grumpy crew... a good skipper should 'never' be influenced by the crew IMHO... that's why one is allegedly 'Skipper'.. a superior knowledge and experience of seamanship..
Its not a frickin democracy out there.. you want 'Democracy' join a political party and stay the hell away from a boat I command..
I'm very laid back.. up to a point... and that point is reached when people try to make/enforce by threat stupid decisions that may result in MY death...
Ports close for good reason..
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Old 17-04-2013, 06:29   #37
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Re: Yacht Broaches

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Its been mentioned about grumpy crew... a good skipper should 'never' be influenced by the crew IMHO... that's why one is allegedly 'Skipper'.. a superior knowledge and experience of seamanship..
Its not a frickin democracy out there.. you want 'Democracy' join a political party and stay the hell away from a boat I command..
I'm very laid back.. up to a point... and that point is reached when people try to make/enforce by threat stupid decisions that may result in MY death...
Ports close for good reason..
I hope the reason for the fatal attempt was not because someone had a plane to catch. Schedules can be killers.
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Old 17-04-2013, 06:56   #38
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Could have just been a language problem. They call in and are told the port is closed in Portuguese. One of the crew mistakenly translates it to happy hour starts at 5 in German.
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Old 17-04-2013, 07:07   #39
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Could have just been a language problem. They call in and are told the port is closed in Portuguese. One of the crew mistakenly translates it to happy hour starts at 5 in German.
Actually Senhor Guiera at the marina is fairly fluent in several languages English, French, Italian and a couple more.. so are the pilots.. that's one of the 'Job requirements'..
and English is fairly wide spoken by the under 40's.. generally its shyness and lack of confidence that holds folk back.
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Old 17-04-2013, 07:32   #40
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Re: Yacht Broaches

I am actually fairly fluent in French, but that does not mean that I don't occasionally understand something perfectly to the T but backasswards. This usually happens when I am tired. Oddly enough though alcohol helps translation. Probably because it gets rid of that shyness you mentioned.
Another thing to consider is that all Air Traffic Controllers the world over are required to speak English as part of their job requirement. This does not mean however that I was able to understand a word of that "English" when flying around the patch at my little airfield in France. Especially hard to understand over the radio. I usually let them suffer through my French.
I am not saying for sure this was the reason. Only not to crucify the skipper because it could have been the reason.

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Actually Senhor Guiera at the marina is fairly fluent in several languages English, French, Italian and a couple more.. so are the pilots.. that's one of the 'Job requirements'..
and English is fairly wide spoken by the under 40's.. generally its shyness and lack of confidence that holds folk back.
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Old 17-04-2013, 07:57   #41
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pirate Re: Yacht Broaches

If I gave the impression that I was trying to crucify the Skipper I apologize most sincerely...
He made a decision that many skippers will/may have to make at some time in their 'sailing life'.. one that he and his crew live or die by..
Unfortunately this time the dice were loaded against him and things went rapidly from bad to worse.. he made a judgement call..
it could have worked out just as easily the other way and he'd have been laughing in the HM's office at the fuss because he'd had no problems.. 5-7metres..? Hah..! piece of cake..!!
What I do try, is to get across the gravity of certain aspects of sailing and point out in spite of the 'Blue Water Capable' crap that's blathered on about its the coastal sailing that's more likely to kill you... and how to best avoid it happening to you...
How you chose to interpret my posts is down to you... all I know is what I'm trying to get across.. me just a crap 'writer'..
If you would prefer 'respectful silence' feel free...
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Old 17-04-2013, 08:03   #42
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Re: Yacht broaches

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Seems I misunderstood parts of the report... fast Portuguese..
One rescuer and the skipper of the yacht died... botched rescue seems harsh knowing the area and what the sea's can be like.. likely learn more once the crew are out of hospital.
You're right -- "botched" is completely unfair and harsh. That's what happen when people who know nothing about sailing write about sailing incidents, though.
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Old 17-04-2013, 08:05   #43
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Re: Yacht Broaches

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Indeed the temptation to be kicking back in the calm waters behind the jetties is strong. Especially after being beat up outside. Though when the harbormaster says it's closed better take that to heart and head back out into the open sea like Time Bandit did.

Absolutely. Deep water away from the coast is your friend. That was not a small sailboat. Anyone know if they had reefed?
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Old 17-04-2013, 08:07   #44
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Re: Yacht Broaches

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Actually Senhor Guiera at the marina is fairly fluent in several languages English, French, Italian and a couple more.. so are the pilots.. that's one of the 'Job requirements'..
and English is fairly wide spoken by the under 40's.. generally its shyness and lack of confidence that holds folk back.

I thought it was a reporter who used the word "botched." But if you did, I think we should all cut you some slack. This is like conversation. We're not writing Ph.D. dissertations here.
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Old 17-04-2013, 08:14   #45
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I thought it was a reporter who used the word "botched." But if you did, I think we should all cut you some slack. This is like conversation. We're not writing Ph.D. dissertations here.
Actually I read it when someone posted a 'report' on here... my post was in objection to the word 'Botched'...
**** happens... this time it was severe...
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