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dennisail · 20-04-2010, 23:42

Thanks again guys. I have considered Beneteau and Hunter but from all reports these boats were certainly not designed for ocean crossings, to a much lesser degree than an IOR yacht. Most have just 2 working sails and no equipment either. I realize the resale would be a lot better. But over her its impossible to get any decent 40footer for under $120K, no matter the brand. I have noticed the Hunters and Beneteaus here seem to cost 2 to 3 times the amount here than in the US in the current market and exchange rate. I don't really know much about yacht values other than it has been impossible to find something good here for anywhere close to what the sell in the Americas. I would sail a Hunter or Beneteau across the pacific if I was satisfied it would be a suitable design in regards to seaworthiness, which at this point I am not. Given their comfort and resale value I wouldn't mind being convinced though. I think even though this is not a know yacht here, something like it would sell on its merits alone providing it was in good shape. Sailing it from the US would give it "sea cred" too

I also don't even know much about the taxes. Does the buyer in the US need to pay a tax? What sort of taxes would be be looking at when I get it back here? Obviously at this point this idea is in its infancy, so chatting on forums like this is my starting point as I find talking with the right people on forums like these is a good place to find the right direction.

As for the electrical, lucky I am an electrician! I realize buying sight unseen is a little insane and I wouldn't like to do that unless I was 100% sure in the surveyor and he sent me 200 high res pics without the real estate camera, plus I made some US friends who could also give their opinion. Even then that would only prompt to to fly there to actually look at it. The prob is I only have 6 months to buy prepare then sail back here, and I want to at least see a few nice places on the way back!

Jim. Did you rig a permanent inner for-stay? I here people "hoist" one too. I think this would be a good option so that its out of the way of the massive genoa when tacking. Also upwind performance means a lot to me as I wouldn't mind some racing back in aus. I would mind sailing it up AND down the coast here on my holiday breaks which means upwind sailing. I want to be able to go where I want without worrying that my slow fat boat will need a minimum of 15K just to move and if its much higher than a reach I will stop moving.

MarkJ · 21-04-2010, 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisail

I have considered Beneteau and Hunter but from all reports these boats were certainly not designed for ocean crossings, .

Well, not ALL reports.

But more importantly whats YOUR report after studying them?

Mark

**Jim Cate** · 21-04-2010, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisail

I think even though this is not a know yacht here, something like it would sell on its merits alone providing it was in good shape. Sailing it from the US would give it "sea cred" too

Well, I thought the same about I-one when we were ready to sell her... and I was wrong! It took 18 months to find someone who appreciated her enough to shell out some bucks... and she had HEAPS of "sea cred".

I also don't even know much about the taxes. Does the buyer in the US need to pay a tax? What sort of taxes would be be looking at when I get it back here? Obviously at this point this idea is in its infancy, so chatting on forums like this is my starting point as I find talking with the right people on forums like these is a good place to find the right direction.

There are lengthy threads on this subject to follow, but in short you will have to pay somewhere around 12-13% of the boat's Australian value to import her. There will not be any taxes due in the US if you export her, and in most states, none collected on second-hand boat sales anyway.

As for the electrical, lucky I am an electrician! I realize buying sight unseen is a little insane and I wouldn't like to do that unless I was 100% sure in the surveyor and he sent me 200 high res pics without the real estate camera, plus I made some US friends who could also give their opinion. Even then that would only prompt to to fly there to actually look at it. The prob is I only have 6 months to buy prepare then sail back here, and I want to at least see a few nice places on the way back!

Surely you wouldn't buy sight unseen! That's madness! If you want to save the bucks by buying in the USA, factor in some plane tickets (and hope that the airlines have made back their losses from the bloody volcano by then!)

Jim. Did you rig a permanent inner for-stay? I here people "hoist" one too. I think this would be a good option so that its out of the way of the massive genoa when tacking. Also upwind performance means a lot to me as I wouldn't mind some racing back in aus. I would mind sailing it up AND down the coast here on my holiday breaks which means upwind sailing. I want to be able to go where I want without worrying that my slow fat boat will need a minimum of 15K just to move and if its much higher than a reach I will stop moving.

The inner forestay was more or less permanent, but we didn't find that it impeded tacking the genoa too badly. In fact, when we were giong to be short tacking, we set the stays'l inside it. Didn't improve the speed, but acted like a "tacking aid" -- the genny just slid over the stays'l real slick like, and then at our leisure, we'd bring the stays'l across.

And we did countless trips up and down the East coast of Australia... from as far south as Southwest Cape in Tassie to Lizard Island in FNQ. We sailed most of the miles south from Lizard while most others were motoring and cursing... I think that you might enjoy that part!

Mark's points about the fiscal aspects of buying a Bene (or Bavaria or Jeaneau (sp?) etc might well be true, and while I am no fan of these boats, they are certainly capable of doing the passage you are describing. My tastes run more to other designs, but this is a very personal matter, and Mark has certainly been a staunch supporter of the French production boats. Right now they are wildly popular in Oz, and thus might be much easier to re-sell if that is an important factor to you.

So, carry on, mate... these are not easy decisions!d Hand in there, and try to have a good time agonizing over your choices!!!

Cheers,

Jim

dennisail · 21-04-2010, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Well, not ALL reports.

But more importantly whats YOUR report after studying them?

Mark

I will admit I do not have the correct amount of knowledge to definitely answer that. I read story's of cheap manufacture, hull shapes that are designed for room rather than seaworthiness, huge freeboard (while being dry isn't the best in a cyclone with all the windage) and deck stepped masts. They are built in the age of minimal materials to keep price down, plus virtually none have any off shore equipment on them as they are rarely taken off shore. I even read most owners (first hand) won't feel safe take them off shore and you know how much everyone talks up their own boats.

Now I am not going to believe what everyone says so I am 100% turned away from these designs. In fact I would love to be convinced otherwise as I like these boats very much. My confidence in them as ocean cruisers is just not the best at this point. What I would like to hear is first hand stories from people who own one such as yourself, rather than go off the opinions of others who just bash "production boats" as I am sure its not all bad.

dennisail · 27-04-2010, 06:32

MarkJ, I have been reading as much as I can on the popular production boats. I have since found some of your threads and it seems you have covered a few miles in that Beneteau of yours. Braving the waters of Somalia. Respect.

On the other hand I just read a story about large Beneteau falling apart and sinking in a cyclone. I am sure you have read the story of the Sean Seymour II. Although with 50 foot plus waves and gusts over 85K I would only want to be out there in a steel yacht with small double bolted hatches. But we cant choose our weather on long journeys.

Art and Sea in Provence :: s/v Sean Seamour II - the final log entry

What do people think of the Columbia 43?

1974 Columbia Mark III Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

1973 Columbia Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - au.yachtworld.com

**Boracay** · 27-04-2010, 15:12

Just so long as you are fully familiar with just how much work older boats are to keep and know how much marine parts for larger boats cost.

A single major repair might cost more than the boat...

Paul L · 27-04-2010, 15:48

Dennis,
You don't really think that a 36 year old Columbia is a stronger boat than the 45ft Bene that Seymour was, do you? While a Bene is a modern production boat, a Columbia was a production boat of its day. They were fine for what they were built for, but they don't get stronger with age - just about all of their systems need renewing if you want an offshore boat.

Paul L

dennisail · 27-04-2010, 16:50

From what I can see, at least it was designed to be an ocean going yacht. Sure, if you buy one that is delaminating something you could be in trouble.

I know my Fathers 36 year old Trailer Sailer is still way stronger than most new ones you can buy and I bet the C43 was built stronger than Seymour, but sure, age will have taken its toll. What year model was Seymour?

So what you guys are saying is I will be screwed in anything I can afford? I am very good with repairs and can fix almost anything. But not in the middle of the ocean or on an atol with a population of 300 people with no materials. So the boat falling apart on me IS a worry be that due to age or cheap ass production methods and design. I would try to get it up to scratch before I left, taking care to buy a particular example with no major probs.

What do you guys suggest I do?

Put another mortgage on my house and get this? Its in Thailand so half the distance and closer to land, but right in a tropical storm band the whole way.

http://www.boatshed.com/jeanneau_sun...at-103014.html

Paul L · 27-04-2010, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisail

From what I can see, at least it was designed to be an ocean going yacht. Sure, if you buy one that is delaminating something you could be in trouble.

So what you guys are saying is I will be screwed in anything I can afford? I am very good with repairs and can fix almost anything. But not in the middle of the ocean or on an atol with a population of 300 people with no materials. So the boat falling apart on me IS a worry be that due to age or cheap ass production methods and design. I would try to get it up to scratch before I left, taking care to buy a particular example with no major probs.

What do you guys suggest I do?

Not at all. There are tons of different boats crossing the Pacific. The point I was making was that you seemed to be dismissing the Bene due to the fact that one sank in a storm, then you are looking at a Columbia that would probably take a lot more effort and costs to get offshore ready. Have you looked at some of the boats available in San Carlos Mex? There are a lot of tarnished dream boats that have had a lot of gear put on them and are available for a good price.

Paul L

dennisail · 27-04-2010, 17:22

Thanks for your replies Paul. I wasn't actually dismissing Beneteau. They have pretty much dismissed me by costing a little too much. I don't mind them. I think they have great interiors. But almost every one has virtually no equipment on board. Im sure there are certain models which are stronger and more capable than others, but I am not sure what they are.

I have done yacht world searches in Mexico. Are there better sites for looking at boats from there?

At the moment I am still trying to familiarize myself on different yacht types and brands to see what might be suitable. Forums like this are a great help for that.

Some in mexico

http://au.yachtworld.com/core/listin...g_id=2426&url=
http://au.yachtworld.com/core/listin...g_id=2426&url=
http://au.yachtworld.com/core/listin...g_id=2426&url=

Paul L · 27-04-2010, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisail

Thanks for your replies Paul. I wasn't actually dismissing Beneteau. They have pretty much dismissed me by costing a little too much. I don't mind them. I think they have great interiors. But almost every one has virtually no equipment on board. Im sure there are certain models which are stronger and more capable than others, but I am not sure what they are.

I have done yacht world searches in Mexico. Are there better sites for looking at boats from there?

At the moment I am still trying to familiarize myself on different yacht types and brands to see what might be suitable. Forums like this are a great help for that.

A YachtWorld search will show up a lot of boats for a decent price in Mexico's West coast.
(Sail) Boats For Sale Mexico

Paul L

dennisail · 27-04-2010, 18:00

Thanks. I have been using yacht world, and I didnt really find a massive difference in price there between the US and Mex.

1980 Pearson 365 Ketch Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -
1977 Seawind Cutter Sloop Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -
1985 Catalina Sloop Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - au.yachtworld.com

Am I insane?

1976 Custom Brown Searunner Cutter Sail New and Used Boats for Sale

Paul L · 27-04-2010, 18:11

There isn't a massive difference. What tends to happen though is that the boats in Mex have had a lot of expensive cruising gear put on them prior to heading to Mex. It isn't unusal for someone to put US$50k into a boat they bought for $65k, sail it to Mex and decide after a year or so they want out. That boat is now probably on the market for $65k, just like its sistership on the US West Coast that did not have the major upgrade. Just like anywhere, there are also plenty of disaster boats on the market in Mex.

Paul L

dennisail · 27-04-2010, 18:22

I will keep a lookout. Thanks Paul. I did notice that a lot of the mex boats did have more stuff like autohelm, radar, ground tackle than most US boats. But I am yet to find one with an extra $50K worth.