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Old 02-05-2010, 18:14   #61
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meyermm:

THIS IS ANN WRITING, not Jim.

The smaller the boat, the less volume is alloted for tankage, both fuel and fresh water. "Regular" washing and hygiene practices are important. I can imagine how heated some discussion may have been if someone suggested someone else smelled bad! ;-)

Once the OP has established what his fuel consumption is, then he will be able to budget what he needs for his particular vessel for crossing the ITCZ, and for charging batteries when other methods aren't working too well. [Solar panels may have problems keeping up with his power needs due to the clouds.]

If the OP is of a mind to explore his own limits, he may also decide for himself just how much water is required for "regular" washing of himself, and how frequent "regular" is. I remember feeling outraged that one skipper said he allowed his wife 1 cup of fresh water (250 ml) per day for keeping clean. It didn't seem nearly enough to me, which was my preconceived notion. She used it to rinse her hair. They were old fashioned cruisers, and it worked for them. And, they didn't smell bad. They did wash themselves in salt water, and dry immediately after, and didn't get "boat bum" [the staph infections of hair follicles.]

So, I agree with you that what you are doing is right for you, but I also argue that the OP should explore his and others' preconceived notions. The biological requirements of fresh water for life must be met; the rest is "negotiable." His vessel's fuel requirements
must also be determined by him, and will partly be based on his electrical needs. Remember there are huge differences between "needs" and "wants!" ...and we all get to explore our limits to suit ourselves, but have to stop short of the other fellow's nose.

Fair winds,

Ann Cate, Insatiable II
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Old 02-05-2010, 23:04   #62
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I agree with what you have posted Ann my only points to be made are when someone asks for a guide we should advise averages. Example what length of boat some will say that you can cross an ocean in a 16ft boat because they or someone they have heard of did it but most people do not and I read some years ago that world wide 37ft was average so with that in mind and my experience somewhere between 36 and 45ft would be my advice. From there it is up to the individual to make up his/her mind. As for hygiene bad smells are usually noted by others and the source!
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Old 03-05-2010, 23:10   #63
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Thanks Jim and Ann for sharing your real world experience. It has been very helpful. I don't know why anyone wants to argue about showers in this thread. However to know you made it a long way with modest tankage is the exact thing I want to hear.

I said we enjoy showers every day but ARE willing to ENDURE (as someone put it) less showers or salt showers if it means not having to spend $7000 in equipment. The argument of presenting yourself as a smelly bum to other cruisers or people in general is ridiculous and has little to do with your yachts equipment. Obviously the time to have a nice shower is when you have reached a destination where you will meet others. So unless you have run completely dry you might smell, and at that point your odor will be the least of your worries. And if you are in port, you will ample opportunity to take on fresh water in most places anyway (I know some areas water should be avoided). Even after a salt water shower you don't smell anyhow.....

Back to boats, this looks too good to be true other than the location. Any obvious pitfalls here that stand out immediately? 41 foot 1998 Bavaria for 75K. The price of these yachts it through the roof in AU. Looking at over 200K 1998 Bavaria 41 Holiday Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -
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Old 03-05-2010, 23:52   #64
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YourOldNemesis, thanks for letting me know your water usage plan. Sounds like a good way to save water and its similar to what I might have to do.

Boatman. I have seen those Formosa Ketches for sale previous and done small amount bit of research on them. Without wanting to offend any owners, what I have read so far points to shoddy build quality, poor sailing performance, rotted out wooden spars and general ongoing expensive maintainable issues.
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:00   #65
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RE: Old boats in general and Formosas in particular

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisail View Post
YourOldNemesis, thanks for letting me know your water usage plan. Sounds like a good way to save water and its similar to what I might have to do.

Boatman. I have seen those Formosa Ketches for sale previous and done small amount bit of research on them. Without wanting to offend any owners, what I have read so far points to shoddy build quality, poor sailing performance, rotted out wooden spars and general ongoing expensive maintainable issues.
I've only owned old boats, the newest was a 1986 double ender. The one we're currently gettig ready is a 1979 Transworld 41, Taiwan built, same hull as the Formosa 41's.

We got her for a good price, around $79000 (they tend to be more expensive here in Europe). She was (is) in very good condition. The only issue was with the main mast wich suffered from rot. I repaired it myself with the help from a friend who is a carpenter. For family cruising along northern Europe she would have been fine as she was for several years. We're more ambitious than that though and in two month's we're leaving for the Caribbean.

I present our costs here to give a clue as to what you might have to or want to spend on an old boat before departing. A lot of these things you don't really NEED.

What we've done to the boat this far:
Had to do for safety reasons, prices roughly converted to $US:
  • Repaired main mast, material and transportation $1000
  • Change standing rigging $3500
  • New mizzen sail $1300
  • Used sails for spares $50
  • Partly new batteries $120
  • Replaced broken halyard winch $200
  • New log and sounder $400
  • A million little things that sum up to multi $$$$
Just for our own comfort and ease of mind:
  • Windvane $5000
  • "New" autopilot. It was actually free, it pays to have contacts
  • SSB $1700
  • Plotter $1200
  • Wind generator $700
  • A million little things that sum up to multi $$$$
Not included in the above costs are regular every day boat maintenance. You can sum up the costs if you like but keep it to yourself, I don't want to know

Now regarding Formosas. they have a bad reputation, parly unjustified, party justified. Several different yards built the boats, quality varies depending on yard. Quality varies depending on year they were built, later is generally better. Things to look out for: Rotten masts, rotten core in decks, bad tankage and poor quality stainless. Rot in chainplate backing plates (models with glassed in chainplates, many we're later rebuilt). Delamination of bulkheads on early models. Rig and sail handling is old fashion.

Our boat had a rotten main mast, no rot in decks (yet), good stainless and good tanks (changed by PO). She is an old a$$ boat though and things will break but we love her. With all exterior wood, the Formosas require quite a bit of upkeep.

A few last points. Any 30 year old boat with equally old teak deck and wooden core will have issues, not just the Formosas. If you find a Formosa that has had her issues fixed by PO's she's usually a good buy and you get a lot of boat for your $ as their bad reputation keeps prices low.

I love the way she sails, but that's because I have a thing for that type of boat. If you're looking for a dinghy-like racer, a Formosa is not for you.

In my signature link, there are a few photos and info regarding the mast repair and other things.

/Hampus
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:25   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisail View Post
Thanks Jim and Ann for sharing your real world

Back to boats, this looks too good to be true other than the location. Any obvious pitfalls here that stand out immediately? 41 foot 1998 Bavaria for 75K. The price of these yachts it through the roof in AU. Looking at over 200K 1998 Bavaria 41 Holiday Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -
Probably ex charter, also Bavaria's are not really that popular over here in Europe except with Charter companies.. enquire, does it have a recent survey report...what have you got to lose... the savings would cover any delivery costs for sure.
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:00   #67
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Condition will be the decider MarkJ who regularly posts and sails an ex charter yacht I think swears by them subject to individual condition. It is a bit like buying an ex rental car most are good but the occasional one has had a big hit even though outwardly it looks good and is late model low kms.
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