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Old 11-11-2014, 14:13   #31
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
So how many of the pro small old boat people on this thread HAVE sailed it across the Atlantic?
About the same percentage as those who own big new ones I would take a guess.

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Old 11-11-2014, 14:15   #32
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
So how many of the pro small old boat people on this thread HAVE sailed it across the Atlantic?
I haven't, but my rigger did. In his Nor' Sea 27. Which he originally sailed from San Francisco to Florida.
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:18   #33
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

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About the same percentage as those who own big new ones I would take a guess.

Coops.
of course one of the people being trash quoted has circumnavigated on his 39', so take that wink back
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:19   #34
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

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Originally Posted by steve1944 View Post
You posted that we should chill because we wanted to know what kind of sailor you are.

When you ask for advice of this sort, by taking you seriously we would want to know in what context.


You can go on U Tube and see Atlantic crossings of lavish porportions in almost dead calm. By reading the weather charts yo will probably have the answer to your question.


If you're sitting around the kitchen table and wondering what it would be like to cross the atlantic in a 27 ft boat, that's fine, too.


By asking on this forum, we would want to know in what context.


You see, one couple tasked this forum for about a year various questions and finally bought a boat, sailed down into the Caribe and the boat sunk, they almost died. All this over a simple question that over 200 sailors responded to with earnest interest to help them.


We're chilled, but not like beer; we're chilled like Chablis.


My answer? I wouldn't venture out of the bay, any bay, in a boat that small; and certainly not a big boat (39- 70 foot) without a furler AND forestay with at least three head sails to choose. Nor, w/o a pair of yard jacks on a gaf rig or for a schooner because the Atlantic can be so calm it'd be great to have those other two, larger top sails so as to turn up and close haul at hull speed.

Or not.
You have all your **** in one sock with the last paragraph. Thanks for the chuckle.
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:19   #35
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

For those of you questioning the seaworthiness of smaller boats, how can we forget Mark Rutherford's trip around the America's.

You know, stuff like the Northwest Passage, the Bering Sea, and the Cape.

In his 27 foot Albin Vega.

Hell, I'm not sure many would do that in a Dashew.
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:23   #36
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

I've crossed the Atlantic. My money is on either of the two Tanzers. Likely the one in the USVI since it looks like it has newer sails. I wouldn't really count the C&C since it is in Vancouver.

And the Hunter well, nothing wrong with it but if you are going to go small you want the fastest boat possible, especially in light wind.

The Tanzer would be the better choice. Nice that it has a tiller, makes setting up self steering easier. Plus a wheel on a boat less than 30 feet is kind of a joke anyway.

My real advice for the OP if he has a $10k budget is to start shopping for boats listed at $15 and expect to pay $10k. Lot's of boats out there….
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:25   #37
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
of course one of the people being trash quoted has circumnavigated on his 39', so take that wink back
And I know, as friends, a couple who sailed from the UK to Australia in a 24'. It takes all sorts.

"trash quoted" ?????

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Old 11-11-2014, 14:29   #38
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

one of the comments that gets tossed around on every production boat or blue water thread is "just because it is a fact that others have done doesn't mean it should be"

which is why on my original reply on the this thread I said the OP is welcome to do it
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:35   #39
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

Does anyone remember Tinkerbelle?
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:37   #40
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
one of the comments that gets tossed around on every production boat or blue water thread is "just because it is a fact that others have done doesn't mean it should be"

which is why on my original reply on the this thread I said the OP is welcome to do it
I thought it was just that you were happy to see a Hunter on that list.
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:56   #41
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

I own a Tanzer 25 (#28 Akoni)....raced and single handed it for the past 14 years. Although it's a nice boat for coastal cruising and very good PHRF racing with the fin keel, I would not take it off shore for the following reasons:
1) The forward section of the boat has no bulkheads and tends to flex. After years of heavy racing, the floor pan has popped in the forward section and there are stress cracks around the anchor locker.
2) The cockpit locker door is not watertight....not even close. It is wide wide open and will take on a lot of water in a bad knock down...ask me how I know.
3) No watertight compartments anywhere.
4) it has huge freeboard. In a gale, even under bare poles, the rail is in the water.
5) there is a very non ocean worthy window in the lower wall of the cockpit.
6) upwind in a blow is not comfortable.

It all could be beefed up. With a crash bulkhead, the lazarette glassed over, and the cockpit window removed it might be ok. Things going for it....it's solid glass (no core), it's not super slow, enclosed head, room to sleep and eat.
-John
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:58   #42
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

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This thread got me thinking and my question is: "what is the quantifiable difference between a 25 and 40 foot boat that makes a 40 foot boat more seaworthy than a 25 footer?"

The smaller boat should be stronger. If I have the same hull construction the 25 footer would be stronger because of lower bending and twisting moments. Overall stresses would be less on the 25 footer because the mass is much less. Bulkheads and stringers are closer together. The forces on the rudder, keel, standing and running rigging are less.

In summary, the material scaling makes the 25 footer inherently stronger if approximately the same construction is used.

I argue that a smaller boat is much easier to overbuild. A little extra material is amplified in fractional strength and durability increases when compared to a larger yacht.

Consequently, the 25 footer should be inherently more seaworthy.
I read an analogy once in an article discussing the seaworthiness of small boats that illustrates this point pretty well. Take one of those little red and white plastic fishing bobbers and toss it into the ocean in the worst storm in history. The bobber would get tossed and rolled but the biggest breaking wave in the storm would not crack open the bobber.

Same I think would apply to a small boat. Put enough glass into the hull and deck, make sure all the hatches and ports are bulletproof and you build a boat that will survive anything the sea can throw at it.

On the other hand, I would not want to be inside that boat in a survival storm. The boat might make it but the contents could be mashed. And that for me is the heart of the matter. I've made long ocean passages in boats from 34 to 90'. The last long sail I did was in a 65' ketch. Sea conditions that would have had me strapped in on the 34' were barely a gentle rocking on the 65'.

Plenty of people have crossed oceans in 20-27' boats but in anything but the most benign conditions it would be way to uncomfortable for me to enjoy.
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Old 11-11-2014, 15:10   #43
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

Small boat sailors challenge the rest of us bigger-boat sailors, because they go places and do things in boats most would not use for those voyages. I admire some, wonder at others, and I give credit to all of them for accomplishing what they do with so little (boats).

Roger Taylor is just one example. He sailed the North Atlantic in a 20 foot boat.

There are several of his videos on youtube too.

Solo voyager Roger Taylor and his small boat Mingming II | Yachting Monthly
Roger sailed 20,000 miles in six years aboard the first Mingming I, a junk-rigged 20ft Corribee. His voyages included a foray into the Davis Strait west of Greenland, a circumnavigation of Iceland, and a voyage to the isolated Arctic island of Jan Mayen. In 2006, he retired in mid-Atlantic from the Plymouth to Newport Jester challenge and in 2008 completed the Azores Jester challenge in 21 days. This would be serious stuff for any yachtsman, let alone a solo sailor in an engineless boat 9ft shorter than the dragons flitting round the cans on the other side of the sea wall from the boatyard where Roger is working.
Read more at Solo voyager Roger Taylor and his small boat Mingming II | Yachting Monthly

An even more extreme and amazing case was Ant Steward, who did a circumnavigation in an open boat (19 foot).

Ant Steward, Around the world alone, in an open boat. - YouTube
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Old 11-11-2014, 15:15   #44
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

"Stunt sailing", like Manry's transatlantic in Tinkerbell has little to do with the advisability of making the crossing in a small and unsuited vessel. We seem to get a lot of queries from very inexperienced folks about making big voyages in such vessels. Then when people who have some useful experience in voyaging react negatively, there is an outcry of resentment about "naysaying".

I find this somewhat amusing but mostly I have a bit of a worry about the poster. The actual experience of being in big weather in a small boat in mid ocean is not one that you forget. It certainly isn't something that I'd recommend for someone who says "I'm going to get the boat and get adequate training" before leaving, for that illustrates a total lack of understanding of the realities of ocean voyaging. It is certainly possible to have a transatlantic passage with no harsh weather, but equally possible to encounter weather severe enough to threaten boats of this size no matter the route or the season.

Manry, by the way, came very near death.

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Old 11-11-2014, 15:32   #45
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Re: Would You Cross the Atlantic in Either of These?

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
I assume you would not include the Flicka 20, Nor' Sea 27 or Nebe Cabe 28 in that generalization.

At least I would hope you wouldn't. Those are all extremely capable bluewater boats.
Yes I am including those.

The Flicka is a toy.

As I said sub-30ft is not, imho, up to an Atlantic crossing with any margin of safety. They are not "bluewater" if they survive they are lucky. Like people who row across or float bathtubs, rafts etc.



To make it quantifiable: Go in any boat that qualities for the Sydney Hobart Yacht Race. Doesnt need to be a 'race' boat.

Quote:
have an overall length (LOA)
not more than 30.48 metres
and not less than 9.0 metres
and a waterline length (LWL)
not less than 7.3 metres; http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/sysfile...shyr12-nor.pdf
9 meters = 29.5 feet


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