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Old 04-07-2006, 12:46   #31
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Aloha Wheels,
Well said. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and so is ugly. I don't like the looks of the high freeboard center cockpit Coronados but they certainly make great apartments.
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Old 04-07-2006, 17:36   #32
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Forum topic heading south

Well when I saw the title of this thread - being a moderator in another forum for the past five years now - I had a feeling the potential was there for this thread to head south. When I was in the Navy, I'd tell my friends never to put down a ship a sailor was from; they had to remember that for that sailor, that ship was home. And just as it would be tasteless to put down some ones house, they should put down the sailors ship; the sailor just might react on the negative.

I thought about this topic and I tried to visualize the worst sailboats, but nothing lept to mind. There are designs I have seen that I'm convinced the designer never was a sailor; but still these designs appalled to some. I'm used to reading in some forums that some one is looking for a "good" boat; not a "Catalina" or a boat like that; so I'm used to owning a boat from the other side of the tracks - my C27.

To me the worst sailboats are the poor neglected ones sitting at all the marinas in the world, slowly deteriorating, eventually going to their sailboat grave. Its sad to see a good boat go bad because the guy never bothered to put the time in. For me, half the fun is bringing my Catalina slowly back to life; everything needs paint, or new hoses, or new this or new that. The Mac's may not be the best sailboat, but they get families out on the water and introduce them to a new life style.

And the boat I envy the most is a boat owned by a chap/gal or couple who take it out all the time. I don't envy the makes of boats like some do, but I do envy people who have made the ocean part of their life style. Watching Lyn and Larry Pardey's Storm Tactics video, you can't help but think: "these two are the real McCoys."

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Old 05-07-2006, 08:16   #33
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where to begin....?

Originally Posted by Vasco
I think one of the ugliest sailboats I've seen is the "Buccaneer 240".

Is it the big, bad pirate flag, calling attention to the stupidity of the way this craft is being "sailed"? Or the multicolored fenders hanging over the side? Or the poorly trimmed sails? And what's that big red thing on the bow... hopefully some kind of automatic collision protection system, because that might reduce the damage thisa craft is about to inlict on some innoecent boater.

These are all far more egregious than the perceived ugliness of the boat.
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Old 05-07-2006, 08:59   #34
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of course, you are absolutely correct. if i could delete my earlier post entirely, i would.

guess i got caught up in the same way i might have after a few drinks at the yacht club pub. to whoever i have offended with my earlier comments, forgive my indescretion.

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Old 05-07-2006, 09:52   #35
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Lynx said... "It is wise to be careful."

Oh, so true.

One of the most embarrassing moments of my life occured one day when I was in Newport, RI. I was on the launch with some good friends and we were on our way to visit my friends' son and his SO on their new to them cruiser at anchor.

I spotted a boat that struck me as particularly ugly. The hull was in an "ugly" color, and the lines were "ugly". So bigmouth me noted my all knowing opinion to my friends.

Guess who the owner of the "ugly" boat turned out to be? You got it... my good friends' son. I'll never forget the growing feeling of horror as we approached that boat in the launch and I began to realize how stupid I was.

On the other end, I used to own and race a J24, perhaps the single most succesful sailboat design of all time. But I was also interested in moving some day to a cruiser, so I used to visit boat shows regularly. So I was on a very nice cruiser, talking to the salesman, a crusty old guy who was probably just a part time salesman, just feeding his cruising kitty.

Well, old crusty was going on about what a wonderful boat he was trying to sell me, talking about the hull form which, he noted was far superior to some hulls "out there" like that stupid floating saucer otherwise known as a J24.

Obviously old crusty was not a well trained salesman because he never took the trouble to learn anything about me. Otherwise he would have known what kind of boat I owned.

(He did not make the sale. He did not even get to complete his pitch.)
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Old 05-07-2006, 11:24   #36
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Originally Posted by S/V Elusive
The worst sailboat I ever saw was the one they launched and it sunk right away - now THAT is a bad sailboat.
Well, at least it got wet once. There's a boat sitting in a yard in sight of a major highway near my home. The thing has been sitting there for years without moving.
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Old 05-07-2006, 12:14   #37
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Yeah I think we all know of boats that are "land locked". I know of one that sits on an intersection of two extrememly busy Christchurch City street. The thing is massive. I think it is FC and is Black. It has sat there since I can remember being knee high to a grasshopper. At least 35-40yrs. It's so big, I doubt anyone is ever going to get it out of where it is.
I also know of two horror stories of FC hulls that were not built to the designers specs. The builder thought they new best and did things a little different. One of the more notible stories was an FC hull being slip launched. It slid off down the tracks only to just keep going down. It made the grade of Submarine because of the rediculouse weight. Another closer to home here, was a similar story. The builder was actually a pro boat builder and thought he knew better than the desinger. He had never built using FC before. He almost slept with his calculator he used it so much. He would tap out calcs almost non stop has he ordered his build crew to do this and that. He can't have been tooo bad as the Launch did at least float. But it was an absolute pig int he water and just never performed. Many years where spent adding , removing, repowering all to no avail.

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Old 05-07-2006, 14:50   #38
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With reference to a couple of posts nominating/discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of the "Buccaneer 240"...

...I am not sure from the photo if it is the same boat, but I have sailed on a couple of 1970's built VandeStadt 24 footers of a design called a Buccaneer...They were both quite well built and, for their size, sailed pretty well. Certainly not the most beautiful boats around, but definitely not the ugliest either. I can recall a 3 day trip where it blew up 35-40 knots on the way home, and while it was not the most comfortable ride ever, she handled it pretty well...
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Old 05-07-2006, 15:22   #39
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As far as Macs go ya gotta remember when they built soft chine REAL sailboats like my old Venture 21. I see these 26X's with 50HP outboards on 'em and just grin as I sail by them. It's no contest of course when they fire up that motor and go blasting by but under sail? No contest. Of course, when they're at anchor and walking around that roomy cabin while I'm crawling around mine.... Anyway, to each his/her own I guess. Speaking of Mac's. Has any of you folks ever seen the Mac 65? I think they only built a dozen or so. Very nice, reasonably quick cruisers.
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Old 05-07-2006, 17:16   #40
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Checked out a Mac 65 once. The long thin body reminded me of an old WW2 submarine. Also it was all fitted out in shag carpeting. Overall it was not impressive except for the price tag. I think it was $125,000 new. This was in the late eighties, if I remember correctly.
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Old 05-07-2006, 18:10   #41
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The Mac 65's are still holding their value. A friend of mine has one. Quite an interesting boat.
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Old 10-07-2006, 18:30   #42
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I've sailed on a Mac 65. You could see the economies of scale at work there. It was a windy (I mean windy for SF Bay) light Bucket Race. Ten mile beat out the gate and then a quick spinny ride back in. First time I was ever scared a boat would fall apart. I saw her flexing left on the bow and right on the Stern. Skipper wanted to put up the chute even though we were already peaking at 17 knots with a reefed main and a handkerchief jib. Being part of the foredeck crew I took my time getting the boat rigged checked and rechecked everything took about half an hour to get the boat ready. (They must have thought I was a crappy foredeck person.) Then again nobody on the back of the boat volunteered tohelp. The wind was pretty far aft when I said everything was ready. Funny how that is. They still managed to round up a couple of times.

I also got a ride from Cabo San Lucas to La Paz on one. It was a very nice motor. It is a lot of boat for the money but I would rather spend more on a shorter boat.
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:03   #43
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Originally Posted by Vasco

Checked out a Mac 65 once. The long thin body reminded me of an old WW2 submarine. Also it was all fitted out in shag carpeting. Overall it was not impressive except for the price tag. I think it was $125,000 new. This was in the late eighties, if I remember correctly.
There are two versions of the Mac 65. The older one and the newer pilot house. The latter is quite an impressive vessel if you can get by its less than traditional looks.

Firstly, it is a very comfortable rocketship. I find it very well designed and very well built. It is a world apart from the Mac 26.
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Old 27-03-2008, 19:48   #44
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Well, in the US market, either Reinell or Bayliner Buccaneer 240-tough call-they're both contenders, but I have to go with the Bayliner Buccaneer. Both were made by companies much better know for producing hundreds, maybe thousands, of small planing runabouts. Their complete inexperience with sailboats certainly showed when you looked at their attempts to make one.

I was looking at one at a dock when I saw that it had a "Mean People Suck!" bumper sticker on it. I said to my companions, "Well, they should know!" Then it was pointed out to me that this tubby little boat was a 'livaboard." Fred's Page - Sailing
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Old 27-03-2008, 20:03   #45
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Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
I think one of the ugliest sailboats I've seen is the "Buccaneer 240".

All sailboats are compromises. I would suggest that while the Macgregor 26X is the worst compromise of all, it is NOT the ugliest.

I will second the nomination of the Buccaneer.


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