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Old 05-10-2015, 15:14   #46
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
50' is a HUGE boat, even for a couple with loads of experience...I'm not trying to discourage you, but....
Well, I am trying to discourage you. As several have pointed out, what you want is all wrong for you and just about any other couple in the world. It's WAAAAAY too BIG! Erik and Susan Hiscock, extremely experienced and competent cruising sailors, thought they needed a larger boat for living aboard full time and had a 47' steel ketch custom built. What followed was a tail of misery and woe that soon had them longing for their old 20,000 lb., 30' sloop.

Boats are sized by the pound, not the foot. You don:t want to hear it, but a glass Hinckley Pilot 35 or a Camper and Nocholson 31 are the right boats for you (I thought the suggestion of a Halberg Rassy 35 was a good one, too).

Buy a strong, well-built boat between 13,000 and 16,000 lbs. She should be short on electronics and complex "systems," (like wheel steering, hot and cold running water, hydraulics, and roller furling systems) and long excellent sails, ground tackle, and self steering.

You ought to do some reading as well, and not on the internet. There are many good, sensible recommendations on this thread; there is much wrongheaded drivel as well. Why not try a few books, ones written by sailors who have done that to which you aspire? You might try the works of Eric Hiscock, the Pardeys, Hal Roth, John Guzwell, Peter Tangvald.

Paul
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Old 05-10-2015, 15:15   #47
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Originally Posted by captlloyd View Post
Exactly. A 50ft sailboat has about as much living space as a 40ft house trailer. Got to be able to hide from the Admiral somewhere !!
Well, there is some truth to that. I have more room in my 30' motorhome than I do in my 30' sailboat.

However, I would much rather single hand my 30 sailboat than a 50' boat. Mind you, I've only sailed a 44 footer, with in mast furling and electric winches. Scary to have the sail jam in a 20 knot wind, and crew scrambling to try and unjam it.

If it taught me one thing is that technology is great, but man can it get you into trouble in a hurry if things go wrong. I don't know how one single handles a 50 footer without technology, and I would not want to be there when, not if, things go sideways.

But for others, it works out well. I guess I'm just a luddite.
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Old 05-10-2015, 15:35   #48
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

... I think the most impact on the right boat size is the question where do you want to sail.

The topic is/was "World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k".
I see nothing wrong with going as big as possible within the $180k limit. As others have said probably won't be a 50ft boat ...

On a "World cruising boat" length means also more place for solar, davids and maybe a cutter sailplan. Things are more difficult to get 'nicely done' on much shorter vessels.

If you plan to sail some years in the Baltic and Mediterranean a Halberg Rassy 352 is an excellent suggestion (maybe the best boat in 'this range') because you will get your invest EASILY back, the 352 is a highly wanted boat (so you might have problems finding one too ;-)).

To the time being my wife and I are hired on a 92ft sloop. We own a 41ft cruiser in the Baltic. We both sail them double handed, in fact the 92ft is easier in a lot of respects with hydraulic furlers, hydraulic windlasses, in mast furling, ... If you go bigger you also get a lot of redundancy (e.g. we can also use all the hydraulic functions with DC Power on the 92ft). Yes, the main could be fu&%ed up while furling (never had this) but the main could also get stuck on our boat (manual raised and lowered).

I would choose the right boat depending where I want to go sailing ...

My 2ct

Carsten
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Old 05-10-2015, 15:44   #49
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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But for others, it works out well. I guess I'm just a luddite.
As am I. We should start a yacht club, the Luddite Yacht Club (LYC) composed of men (women always welcome) who like CCA boats, Dacron sails, kerosene stoves, piston hanks, and scotch on the rocks. Our symbol will be crossed tillers over a Herreschoff anchor. Getting a roller furler is publishable by flogging (with a cat o'nine tails); putting a television aboard is subject to summary execution. People under the age of fifty will be Junior Members and benefit from a reduced fee schedule. Our one design classes must have been designed before World War II and big boats must be designed before 1965 (Cal 40s will have their own start and race as a one design class).

Paul
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Old 05-10-2015, 22:50   #50
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
Well, I am trying to discourage you. As several have pointed out, what you want is all wrong for you and just about any other couple in the world. It's WAAAAAY too BIG! Erik and Susan Hiscock, extremely experienced and competent cruising sailors, thought they needed a larger boat for living aboard full time and had a 47' steel ketch custom built. What followed was a tail of misery and woe that soon had them longing for their old 20,000 lb., 30' sloop.

Boats are sized by the pound, not the foot. You don:t want to hear it, but a glass Hinckley Pilot 35 or a Camper and Nocholson 31 are the right boats for you (I thought the suggestion of a Halberg Rassy 35 was a good one, too).

Buy a strong, well-built boat between 13,000 and 16,000 lbs. She should be short on electronics and complex "systems," (like wheel steering, hot and cold running water, hydraulics, and roller furling systems) and long excellent sails, ground tackle, and self steering.

You ought to do some reading as well, and not on the internet. There are many good, sensible recommendations on this thread; there is much wrongheaded drivel as well. Why not try a few books, ones written by sailors who have done that to which you aspire? You might try the works of Eric Hiscock, the Pardeys, Hal Roth, John Guzwell, Peter Tangvald.

Paul
That sort of minimalist living aboard is fine, but it's certainly not for everyone, and the OP didn't say anything about not wanting or caring about basic creature comforts. As an ex Hinckley Pilot 35 owner I feel very sure that very few would be comfortable living aboard. First, if you want refrigeration, you won't have much storage space, and you'll also have to increase battery capacity which will eat up the small amount of storage space even more. There's no place aboard to store a decent sized dinghy and of course there's no shower unless you rig one on deck, and there's no place on board to mount solar panels so all electricity will have to come from your engines alternator. If you're more than 6' tall, you won't ever be able to stand up straight, and if you're about 5'10" you'll have to take care to not have any bounce in your step while aboard. Pilot 35's are wonderful little boats to sail, and are about the most beautiful fiberglass boats ever made, but they're not designed to be long range cruisers. That said, I wouldn't disagree with the OP buying one and cruising aboard it for a season or two before moving up to something more appropriate for world cruising.
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Old 05-10-2015, 23:46   #51
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

A minimalist? I plead guilty. Years of sailing in boats mostly small and some large have convinced me that simple boats are more fun than complex boats and in general, smaller boats are more fun than larger ones. I do agree with your statement that few will agree with me. How men love their engines! And engines are the source of almost all complexity aboard. And everyone wants a boat just a bit larger than the one he has.

I say, to each, his own.

Paul
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:27   #52
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

50' too large? I can only say that the first sailboat that I ever owned was a 43' CT Mermaid (beautiful boat) that when the wife stepped on board for the first time said "the boat is too small". Ended up buying a CT 56 which in fact is 71 feet long with the bowsprit and davits. We have sailed this boat for 5 years with just the 2 of us and my wife is just 45 kilos and has no trouble throwing the dock lines.

This was the right choice for us. Built in 1999, we extensively refit this boat in 2011 removing 3 cabins and 2 heads to allow for 1 large master cabin in the bow, a tool room on the port side and a new, luxury head in the starboard side leaving the master cabin aft alone. Ketch rigged with all furling sails, she is easy to handle in all conditions we have experienced to date including 50kt winds and 8 metre seas. With little or no experience prior to beginning our sailing adventure, this heavy displacement boat (68000lbs) has been very forgiving while we learned the ropes. Nice thing about these heavier boats is that everything tends to be overbuilt so that the mistakes that you make (and you will) won't usually end up in a disaster. Try grounding one of the newer boats built today and you could end up with a world of hurt.

And all those naysayers out there who say they prefer not to have all the amenities that you can't fit on a smaller boat, well they all probably belong to that self help group called "cruising on $500 a month"

Just 2 cents worth from a couple that just went out and did it.

But leave the dogs on the hard where they will be happy.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:27   #53
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Ended up buying a CT 56 which in fact is 71 feet long with the bowsprit and davits. We have sailed this boat for 5 years with just the 2 of us and my wife is just 45 kilos and has no trouble throwing the dock lines.
Thanks for telling your story!
Do you have any pictures? I saw the three in your profile.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:52   #54
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Originally Posted by Nellos View Post
Thanks for telling your story!
Do you have any pictures? I saw the three in your profile.
Just a few from the refit. what would you like to see?
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:57   #55
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Just a few from the refit. what would you like to see?
Good work!
Some more of the finished interior would be nice
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:40   #56
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

Will dig through the computer tomorrow. I can't find any wide angle shots.
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Old 06-10-2015, 09:56   #57
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

Thanks Undercutter!
That workbench must be a real treat. What a luxury to have space for that onboard, no?
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Old 07-10-2015, 14:08   #58
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

Sorry that I can't find any more pictures of the finished work as I only have the disk from the work in progress.

Should you decide to go with a larger boat keep in mind the cost to maintain her. The condition of any boat will give you some indication of how much you need in the kitty. Everything is a balance. Our boat looked beautiful when we went to look at her but once the surveyor was done, the reality was that the purchase priced dropped by a couple hundred thousand dollars and we spent over half of that to get the boat where we wanted. Even with that, we have spent an additional 10-15k a year for upgrades and maintenance including new 9kva generator, new autopilot brain and pump, new folding prop, new sails, semi-annual bottom jobs, new AC fridges, new DC fridges, etc. All this on a boat that was built in 1999 and the costs reflect the fact that most of the installs we did ourselves.

However, this was the boat for us and we would never look back. A larger boat will certainly be much more comfortable in any sea state and will ensure that you have the room to be comfortable especially if you intend to cruise full time. Many a time we have encountered smaller boats 30-40' that were being bashed about due to the weather with little affect on us.

Berthing costs are only a factor if you intend to tie up in a marina for any extended periods of time.

Whatever you decide make sure that you get a competent surveyor that has no association with the seller or broker even if it means flying someone you know to the boat to perform the survey. Our surveyor took a week to finish his work including a full sea trial and was the best money we ever spent.

I would also suggest that you look long and hard at boats available for sale in Asia as we have seen many good boats for sale there that were listed for half the price that you could buy them in the US or Europe. Stay away from any boats listed in Australia as from what I have seen the prices are double there than what they should be. Some reason the Ozzies think everything is worth twice or more than what it is in the real world.

Good luck.
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:31   #59
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Whatever you decide make sure that you get a competent surveyor that has no association with the seller or broker even if it means flying someone you know to the boat to perform the survey. Our surveyor took a week to finish his work including a full sea trial and was the best money we ever spent.
Yes, I'll definately do this.
If you don't mind me asking, can you go into a bit more details regarding the price of the boat and the savings. What was the list price? How much did you pay for the boat after the surveyor was done? How much did the surveyor charge?

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I would also suggest that you look long and hard at boats available for sale in Asia as we have seen many good boats for sale there that were listed for half the price that you could buy them in the US or Europe. Stay away from any boats listed in Australia as from what I have seen the prices are double there than what they should be. Some reason the Ozzies think everything is worth twice or more than what it is in the real world.
Great to know this! I didn't know about the ozzie prices. I am already doing my boat and price research globally though.
Thanks!
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:09   #60
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

You have to remember that dogs want to be with their people. They are happy where ever their people are. If the two dogs are 'Schipperke' dogs they will be just as happy on the boat.

They make great watch dogs and if you ever got a mouse/rat on the boat the Schipperke would help hetting rid of it.

That being said sounds like the expense and paper work and wait times and quarantine times would make traveling with dogs too difficult.

Good luck


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