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Old 29-09-2015, 01:40   #31
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

A 50ft sailboat is a HUGE boat for small minded sailors on CF, where thinking small seems to be the norm and where few sailors actually head out cruising. Over here in the Med and elsewhere in the world, where many people are actually out living on boats for six months per year or full time 365, a 50ft boat isn't considered a HUGE boat... It's considered more like the minimum boat size needed to be comfortable with all the necessities. 50ft plus size boats are everywhere except in America, and I've never heard anyone complain about their boats being too BIG.
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Old 29-09-2015, 02:06   #32
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
50' is a HUGE boat, even for a couple with loads of experience, & who are in tip top shape, with years to decades of sailing experience.
I'm not trying to discourage you, but such is just fact.
Yes, I'm starting to understand this.
Since I'm only in the planning stages the most realistic future scenario is that I buy something smaller, under 40 feet, and sail it in Scandinavia and possibly southern Europe before moving on up to a bigger boat and the full cruising lifestyle.

It's just SO tempting to look at the biggest possible boat I could possibly afford hehehe
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Old 29-09-2015, 06:33   #33
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
A 50ft sailboat is a HUGE boat for small minded sailors on CF, where thinking small seems to be the norm and where few sailors actually head out cruising. Over here in the Med and elsewhere in the world, where many people are actually out living on boats for six months per year or full time 365, a 50ft boat isn't considered a HUGE boat... It's considered more like the minimum boat size needed to be comfortable with all the necessities. 50ft plus size boats are everywhere except in America, and I've never heard anyone complain about their boats being too BIG.
So then if I'm wrong, when was the last time you changed jibs when it was blowing 30kts, & how did that work out? And by changed jibs, I mean hauling the one in your furler's foil down, stowing it, & then hoisting a new one, in the foil... Solo or double handed.

Having raced most of what's out there, up to 80-some feet in length, I can state, flat out, that aside from professional bowmen (with a good support crew - usually of pro's), there just aren't a lot of people who can do the task which I just asked about, above.

And if you do the math, regarding the loads on sails & gear on boats that size, it's easy to see why. As if your technique or focus slips, even for a few seconds, literally, everything can & does, go down the drain.

I'm not saying that it's impossible (even solo). With the proper techniques, skill level, fitness, & strength, it can be done. But to get to the point where it's a low stress event, one has to pay a lot of dues, over time.

For example, a 125% jib on a 50'er is about 1,000sqft. And if it's blowing 22kts, then the load generated by the sail is 1 ton. AKA something which requires some planning ahead when handling it. Let alone when it comes time to buy a new one...
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Old 29-09-2015, 06:59   #34
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

Don't you just pay the yachtyard to do that at the end of the season? Or motor a few hundred miles to the closest yard, with the sail ripped to shreds (seen it both genoas and spinnakers!) several times in S Pacific.
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Old 29-09-2015, 08:22   #35
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

A couple who knows what they are doing can handle a 50' boat but I wouldn't recommend it to a new couple. It's a lot easier for things to get out of hand.

Also, you don't need 50' to be comfortable, nor is it the norm from what I've seen in europe so far. It certainly isn't the norm in the USA. It's actually an akward size. Too large for a couple to handle. Too small to house paid crew.

As someone else suggested, I would look into catamarans particularly for the dogs. With fewer steps, it's likely going to be easier for them to get around. A lot of mono's, particularly the traditional full keel boats have ladders to get in and out of the cabin. More realistically, I would see about finding a new home for the dogs or holding off for a few years until they pass if you want to cover a lot of countries.
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Old 29-09-2015, 08:58   #36
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

You might be interested in reading the blog World Tour cruise with Alex and Taru. They're a couple who sailed from Barcelona to the Caribbean and have temporary put their trip on hold while they're building a restaurant in Miami.

Regardless, Alex a very accomplished sailor, and if you read the very entertaining blog, you may pick up a lot of things that he did to prepare for the trip. That includes the choice of a boat which should be very familiar to you, a Hallberg Rassy 352. Of course built in Sweden. There are very few people who would question the seaworthiness of a Hallberg Rassy or its suitability for purpose of both their trip and the one you're planning.

Here are the details of that boat. In fact, this is a great site for any boat you might be considering as they have similar details for virtually every boat built.

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2035

Things start off in the archives here.

http://www.worldtourstories.com/2010_02_01_archive.html

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Old 30-09-2015, 11:32   #37
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

Don't believe the neigh sayers regarding a 50+ foot boat. If you have a minimum of dynamic thinking, you'll sort it out fine.

We have an Amel Super Maramu and during a heavy downpour today, my GF, said it was not acceptable for water to enter the aft part of the cockpit via the mizzen mast... she is a moaner!

even my GF can handle the helm on our boat. Goes to show..
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Old 30-09-2015, 11:36   #38
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
So then if I'm wrong, when was the last time you changed jibs when it was blowing 30kts, & how did that work out? And by changed jibs, I mean hauling the one in your furler's foil down, stowing it, & then hoisting a new one, in the foil... Solo or double handed.

Having raced most of what's out there, up to 80-some feet in length, I can state, flat out, that aside from professional bowmen (with a good support crew - usually of pro's), there just aren't a lot of people who can do the task which I just asked about, above.

And if you do the math, regarding the loads on sails & gear on boats that size, it's easy to see why. As if your technique or focus slips, even for a few seconds, literally, everything can & does, go down the drain.

I'm not saying that it's impossible (even solo). With the proper techniques, skill level, fitness, & strength, it can be done. But to get to the point where it's a low stress event, one has to pay a lot of dues, over time.

For example, a 125% jib on a 50'er is about 1,000sqft. And if it's blowing 22kts, then the load generated by the sail is 1 ton. AKA something which requires some planning ahead when handling it. Let alone when it comes time to buy a new one...

Nonsense matey,

Our boat is fine in any winds .. lecky furling does wonders... Ketch rig even better.
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Old 30-09-2015, 12:24   #39
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

ABV3, thanks for the link to this couple's sailing blogs. She looks like she could be Angelina Jolie's sister in some of the pics. Alex is amazing what he can do with a retrofit. Wish I had his skill level. I should probably retire now so that I can keep up with all the blog pages I have subscribed to...
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Old 30-09-2015, 15:59   #40
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

How is the "GF" on the emergency tiller? What about when the furler jams 3/4 way out in say 50 knots?

I suppose they do tell you at the boat shows that will never happen on an Amel!
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Old 30-09-2015, 20:03   #41
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

With blood dripping down the back of my throat as I bite my tongue to stop from weighing into the ongoing CF debate regarding the feasibility of two crew handling anything larger than 35' (or whatever Lin and Larry Pardey recommend as the maximum), I will simply add this.

Extrapolating from the OP's budget of $180,000 for purchasing the boat, I think any dreams of buying a well maintained, AND well setup boat for EASY handling by a couple over 50', will severely stretch their budget once any inevitable refit and maintenance costs for a 'world cruise'. The costs simply go up dramatically as the size goes up.

Something in the low-40' range (or smaller catamaran?) is far more likely to fit the capital and operating budget suggested by the price range.

As a final note, I do find it interesting that the Alex and Taru blog is referenced when recommending a 35' HR. I followed that blog for a bit and my impression was that they sold the 35' HR because it was simply too small for them. There was a lot of talk about the looks of the new boat, but there were also numerous references to being tired of tripping over each other and their stuff, with no dogs added to the mix.

YMMV
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Old 01-10-2015, 02:00   #42
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
How is the "GF" on the emergency tiller? What about when the furler jams 3/4 way out in say 50 knots?

I suppose they do tell you at the boat shows that will never happen on an Amel!
The emergency tiller is likely ... after all electrics are gone. The boat is quite redundant. The arm for the emergency steering is about 8 feet long and the rudder is quite small. Not really a problem for GF.

Regarding the furler, we begin furling at the 20 knot point and reduce sail before the wind gets to 50 knots. We are experienced sailors...
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Old 01-10-2015, 02:01   #43
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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Originally Posted by Hobie_ind View Post
With blood dripping down the back of my throat as I bite my tongue to stop from weighing into the ongoing CF debate regarding the feasibility of two crew handling anything larger than 35' (or whatever Lin and Larry Pardey recommend as the maximum), I will simply add this.

Extrapolating from the OP's budget of $180,000 for purchasing the boat, I think any dreams of buying a well maintained, AND well setup boat for EASY handling by a couple over 50', will severely stretch their budget once any inevitable refit and maintenance costs for a 'world cruise'. The costs simply go up dramatically as the size goes up.

Something in the low-40' range (or smaller catamaran?) is far more likely to fit the capital and operating budget suggested by the price range.

As a final note, I do find it interesting that the Alex and Taru blog is referenced when recommending a 35' HR. I followed that blog for a bit and my impression was that they sold the 35' HR because it was simply too small for them. There was a lot of talk about the looks of the new boat, but there were also numerous references to being tired of tripping over each other and their stuff, with no dogs added to the mix.

YMMV
Spot on mate...
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:46   #44
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
So then if I'm wrong, when was the last time you changed jibs when it was blowing 30kts, & how did that work out? And by changed jibs, I mean hauling the one in your furler's foil down, stowing it, & then hoisting a new one, in the foil... Solo or double handed.

Having raced most of what's out there, up to 80-some feet in length, I can state, flat out, that aside from professional bowmen (with a good support crew - usually of pro's), there just aren't a lot of people who can do the task which I just asked about, above.

And if you do the math, regarding the loads on sails & gear on boats that size, it's easy to see why. As if your technique or focus slips, even for a few seconds, literally, everything can & does, go down the drain.

I'm not saying that it's impossible (even solo). With the proper techniques, skill level, fitness, & strength, it can be done. But to get to the point where it's a low stress event, one has to pay a lot of dues, over time.
Everything your wrote is correct, but it's not a reason for everyone except for ex professional bowmem/weightlifters with a good support crew onboard to be restricted to boats under 50'. In your scenario above, why not just unfurl or raise the staysail that you've prepared before it started to blow, and sail on? I've owned/sailed boats on the ocean for over 20 years and have never been unable to furl the jib when I needed to and I don't know anyone who hasn't been able to either. Yes, it can happen but realistically what are the chances of that happening at just the wrong time? Someday, if all the stars align against me and I'm offshore in 30+ knots of wind and the genoa is up and unable to be furled and I deem it unsafe to even attempt to lower it due to the risk of being whacked in the head by the clew or it knocking me overboard, I'd live with it flogging and maybe even go forward with a knife and start a tear at the tack, knowing that the sail would soon be gone and when we got to shore I'd be writing a big check to order a new sail. No big deal if that's what it takes to keep all aboard safe. You can always come up with a scenario where even an experienced sailing couple can't do something aboard a boat without additional help, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't go sailing or can't handle the situation some other way that what you might do with a professional crew onboard.

I do agree that the OP should start with something smaller than 50' since he seems to be completely inexperienced. But for most sailing couples with a reasonable amount of experience, if their budget allows, I think a 50'ish boat is just about optimum for comfortable cruising.
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Old 05-10-2015, 14:57   #45
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Re: World cruising boat for a couple, 2 dogs under 180k USD?

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A 50ft sailboat is a HUGE boat for small minded sailors on CF, where thinking small seems to be the norm and where few sailors actually head out cruising. Over here in the Med and elsewhere in the world, where many people are actually out living on boats for six months per year or full time 365, a 50ft boat isn't considered a HUGE boat... It's considered more like the minimum boat size needed to be comfortable with all the necessities. 50ft plus size boats are everywhere except in America, and I've never heard anyone complain about their boats being too BIG.
Exactly. A 50ft sailboat has about as much living space as a 40ft house trailer. Got to be able to hide from the Admiral somewhere !!
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