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Old 28-05-2013, 04:09   #46
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Re: Wood for interior

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
FYI Delfin:
The toxicity of constituents of cedar... [J Allergy Clin Immunol. 1989] - PubMed - NCBI
There are many articles attributing cedar to asthma and pulmonary problems. And these are studies, not opinions. Still, feel free to build what you want with what you want. I will be taking it out of my boat. Its especially toxic to pets, which I didn't know till I reviewed the literature.
Good luck with your projects, but I hope you leave your cedar to wardrobe and blanket storage (where it is useful because it kills bugs).
I'm a lifelong builder and have sawed, cut and installed truckloads of western red cedar. I have been covered in sawdust for weeks. For most of us any reaction is a non-issue. Maybe 1% or less have problems but they seem to be ultra sensitive anyway. The eastern red is very aromatic and is used for closet linings It may be a different story.That link also says the same about pine which is in almost every house in the US and Canada. But take it out of your boat.? No way! Unless you have a reaction.
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Old 28-05-2013, 08:00   #47
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Re: Wood for interior

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
FYI Delfin:
The toxicity of constituents of cedar... [J Allergy Clin Immunol. 1989] - PubMed - NCBI
There are many articles attributing cedar to asthma and pulmonary problems. And these are studies, not opinions. Still, feel free to build what you want with what you want. I will be taking it out of my boat. Its especially toxic to pets, which I didn't know till I reviewed the literature.
Good luck with your projects, but I hope you leave your cedar to wardrobe and blanket storage (where it is useful because it kills bugs).
Not too sure what relevance a study seeking to explain lung disease among industrial workers exposed to cedar or pine dust over the course of years has to do with using cedar on a boat. On that basis, after you get rid of the cedar, will you start on the fiberglass since polyester resins is a whole lot more toxic than cedar dust?

And cedar doesn't kill bugs. They just don't burrow into some species or lay their eggs nearby because of the oil, but I can walk outside and take some pictures of fallen western red cedar full of carpenter ant burrows if you like.
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Old 28-05-2013, 08:07   #48
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Re: Wood for interior

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nice work in those photos - real craftsmanship. Not sure about your description of eucalyptus - what you seem to be describing is ironbark, which i just used to make a forward hatch - it is as hard as steel, a little heavy but it is absolutely impervious to weather, doesnt need any treatment. Definitely wouldnt use it on an interior, but there are some quite pretty eucalypts that would be fine if used as trims...
You're right on the iron bark. I used to burn it when I lived in Dubbo and it didn't split, it shattered.

I saw an Australian built boat at Anacortes Trawler Fest last year that was made of eucalyptus. I think it was iron bark and the owner said you had to thread a hole for a screw, just like metal since a properly sized wood screw would just break off. I looked at his rub rails - unfinished - and after 40 years not a check could be found. Amazing stuff, but as you say there are so many species it would be hard to generalize.
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Old 28-05-2013, 08:08   #49
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Re: Wood for interior

I recently had a saloon table made of embuia, commonly called "Brazilian walnut." It's absolutely gorgeous, especially if you like fiddled grain.
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Old 28-05-2013, 18:38   #50
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Re: Wood for interior

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
hey while talking of cuttig down trees for wood, allow me to go off-topic and ask if anyone has grown balsa trees? I have about half-acre lot the trees cleared, not doing anything, and was thinking I can grow some balsa on it, my research indicates only 3-4 years before it's ready to cut down. Can make some something out of it, probably interior panels for my boat (core), stuff is expensive to buy!
I build lots of rc airplanes out of the stuff. One tree would probably be enough for a lifetime of rc planes.

You live in a rainforest environment? Balsa Facts
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Old 28-05-2013, 22:05   #51
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Re: Wood for interior

Sand Crab- all of us have genetic predispositions to things. I take care of people like you that show only mild effects of toxins they have been exposed to, others have horrendous growths that quickly end their lives. There are a lot of woods out there, given what I have seen, and the fact I may want to keep pets on board at some time, I will not be using cedar.You pick your poisons and live with what you want I guess. I just wanted people to know that it is a toxin.
Defin- if you don't know that cedar is a known pesticide...well I can't help. As for ants, they will be crawling around long after the human race is gone. Biologically, they are much tougher than you or I, and stronger too.
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Old 28-05-2013, 22:27   #52
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Re: Wood for interior

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Sand Crab- all of us have genetic predispositions to things. I take care of people like you that show only mild effects of toxins they have been exposed to, others have horrendous growths that quickly end their lives. (might want to look up Carcinoid Syndrome) There are a lot of woods out there, given what I have seen, and the fact I may want to keep pets on board at some time, I will not be using cedar.You pick your poisons and live with what you want I guess. I just wanted people to know that it is a toxin.
Defin- if you don't know that cedar is a known pesticide...well I can't help. As for ants, they will be crawling around long after the human race is gone. Biologically, they are much tougher than you or I, and stronger too.
Good advice below, Newt, on how to kill pesky aphids, scale, beetles etc. that routinely attack cedar trees, apparently unaware of its lethality.

How to Diagnose Cedar Tree Pests & Diseases | Home Guides | SF Gate

Course, if you want to press the oil out and pour it on them, you can certainly annoy the little critters sufficiently to encourage them to move elsewhere.

Cedar won't hurt you but if you're motivated to tear out of your boat a wood favored by many boat builders because you think it will harm you when it can't harm an aphid, have at it.
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Old 29-05-2013, 00:16   #53
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Re: Wood for interior

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Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
oak is good but will turn black if it gets wet. Use a good quality exterior plywood for sub structures.
+1!

Oak was popular in the UK in the '90's. How many boats, including expensive Oysters, I saw from that period with ugly black marks from where hatches had leaked (or been left open). Impossible to get out.

My boat is all teak inside, including all the doors, bulkheads, cabin soles, even in the heads compartments. It's true that it's dark, but if the boat has enough natural light it's not necessarily oppressive. It's very durable and has held up suprisingly well even in tough spots like the cabin sole. I have only just refinished the first bit of interior wood in the boat -- the companionway stairs -- although the boat is 12 years old.

Cherry is pretty, but I wonder how well it holds up in the marine environment.

Eucalyptus sounds very good -- in my opinion, oily, rot- and stain-resistant woods are best for boats.
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Old 29-05-2013, 05:44   #54
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Cherry is pretty, but I wonder how well it holds up in the marine environment.
Very good. Cherry is a hardwood and it holds up great, gets better with age.
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Old 29-05-2013, 06:12   #55
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All this discussion about "toxicity" of certain woods is such a individual thing really. For me its zebrawood, also called zebrano. I'm drastically allergic to the dust, skin turns red, I start to wheeze immediately. I can never work the stuff again. For my dock neighbor it's cumaru or Brazilian teak (although it's not really teak). That's where I got my supply of it, he gave it all to me because he can't work it. He has a bad reaction to it immediately, but it has no effect on me. If I touch certain varieties of juniper I can write my name on my skin with a branch because even a light touch turns my skin red. No such effect on my wife. Generalizations about toxicity or more precisely allergic reactions just aren't very useful.
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Old 29-05-2013, 06:29   #56
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Very good. Cherry is a hardwood and it holds up great, gets better with age.
Very prone to dings though and it can rot , had it in a boat sone years ago , fades too , but yes it looks lovely

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Old 29-05-2013, 08:15   #57
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Re: Wood for interior

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Originally Posted by kthoennes View Post
All this discussion about "toxicity" of certain woods is such a individual thing really. For me its zebrawood, also called zebrano. I'm drastically allergic to the dust, skin turns red, I start to wheeze immediately. I can never work the stuff again. For my dock neighbor it's cumaru or Brazilian teak (although it's not really teak). That's where I got my supply of it, he gave it all to me because he can't work it. He has a bad reaction to it immediately, but it has no effect on me. If I touch certain varieties of juniper I can write my name on my skin with a branch because even a light touch turns my skin red. No such effect on my wife. Generalizations about toxicity or more precisely allergic reactions just aren't very useful.
If you're allergic to something it is no doubt a good idea to stay away from it. And many people can have an allergic reaction to wood dust, or in some cases, like you with juniper by simple contact. And if they are exposed to it from manufacturing, wood dust can and does cause disease, just like concentrated exposure over time to most any substance can.

That said, if you're going to start or you're prepared to tell others to start ripping out the interior of your boat based on misunderstood and/or erroneous data, then you better move in with the Bubble Boy because the world is full of irritants and imaginary death threats. If the cedar goes, then so should teak, which is quite a bit more of irritant than the species of cedar used for boat interiors.

And don't get me started on fiberglass......
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Old 29-05-2013, 08:33   #58
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Re: Wood for interior

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Very prone to dings though and it can rot , had it in a boat sone years ago , fades too , but yes it looks lovely

Dave
It does not fade at all, it becomes a darker red with age. Must have been a different kind of cherry
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Old 29-05-2013, 08:42   #59
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Re: Wood for interior

I too, am or have developed an allergy to most exotic woods. I suppose they share some common chemical. Teak is no different.. that is the dust from it. I have no problem with older teak such as my cockpit (unvarnished). Seems that the most decay resistant are the most allergetic. Makes sense.
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Old 29-05-2013, 09:05   #60
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Re: Wood for interior

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Originally Posted by defjef View Post
I too, am or have developed an allergy to most exotic woods. I suppose they share some common chemical. Teak is no different.. that is the dust from it. I have no problem with older teak such as my cockpit (unvarnished). Seems that the most decay resistant are the most allergetic. Makes sense.
This chart is useful.

Wood Allergies and Toxicity | The Wood Database

Lesson - don't build your boat out of Sassafras, and certainly throw away all old fashioned root beer in the fridge. And while you're at it, remove the hemlock studs from your house, since it is as toxic as Alaskan Yellow Cedar, widely used for boat interiors.
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