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Old 02-07-2016, 14:56   #91
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Just a clarification, carvel planking does apply to single, double, and even triple planking. Multiple layers usually run diagonal to the final outer layer to give strength to the entire hull. Triple layers usually means the two diagonal layers go in opposite direction to each other. A very, very expensive way to build a hull. Only seen double planking but heard of triple. The hull basically does not flex or very little flex compared to single planking. If you want to go overboard, the final layer can be clinker which would give it additional strength.
I agree, which is why I suggest the OP posts a photo of the inside of the hull. The other way to find out is to remove a thru-hull fitting, preferable one above the WL.
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Old 02-07-2016, 15:49   #92
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

To the OP, if you like a wood boat and find one you want the process is no different than buying any other boat. You need a excellent surveyor and to do lots of reasearch. In my expiriance the maintinance on wood vs. FRP vs. steel is not really all that much different, either you maintain it or not. Unless you dream of becoming a shipright I would definately not buy anything that needs to be restored in any way, you are better off waiting it out. Carvel planked or double planked hulls are all about what they were built with. You can get all sorts of BS advice on wonder this and wonder that and you won't find a more opinoinated cabal in any maritime field. Maine is a East coast mecca of wooden boats but leans heavily on the Pedigree and there is alot of big money maintaining the market so not always the best place to look, Nova Scotia is a nother good East coast Mecca. The PNW into northern Cali is the west coast spot for wood boats. Boats in Cali were probably sailed harder and the climate is not as friendly as the PNW.

Don't get shoe horned into 1 or 2 experts. If you hit the PNW in Late Aug you can go to three consecutive wood boat festivals, Victoria BC, Deer harbor Wa and Port Townsend. There are lots of boats for sale and you won't find a better group for knowledge.

Edited>>>slogged thru the earlier posts and see you have already found one, same as above get a great surveyor, preferabel a active shipright.
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Old 02-07-2016, 17:24   #93
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

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Edited>>>slogged thru the earlier posts and see you have already found one, same as above get a great surveyor, preferabel a active shipright.
An active shipwright or boatwright who you won't be hiring to do the work that is There are good wooden boat surveyors (who are not active shipwrights or boatwrights) and they tend to be a little more objective than the boatwrights themselves, IMO and experience. A lot of wooden boatwrights think a lot of themselves. Few are actual shipwrights (going to a wooden boat school does not a shipwright make...) but if you find a real shipwright s/he will cost a pretty penny and have an even higher opinion of himself.
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Old 02-07-2016, 17:50   #94
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

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An active shipwright or boatwright who you won't be hiring to do the work that is There are good wooden boat surveyors (who are not active shipwrights or boatwrights) and they tend to be a little more objective than the boatwrights themselves, IMO and experience. A lot of wooden boatwrights think a lot of themselves. Few are actual shipwrights (going to a wooden boat school does not a shipwright make...) but if you find a real shipwright s/he will cost a pretty penny and have an even higher opinion of himself.
It's a balancing act as you well know. I have been very unimpressed with some shipwrights and surveyors who are universaly accepted as the best. Two of the best ones I have worked with were polar opposites as far as ego. A good equalizer is a small shop that spends zero dollars on advertizing, is always busy and turns you down several times haha.
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Old 02-07-2016, 18:06   #95
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

Folks with the time and knowledge to properly put together a wooden boat are few and far between. There are some excellent kiwi builders, by the way.
The finest example of a properly built wooden boat I've ever seen was hand built by William Garden on his island in the PNW. The vessels name is Toad, I believe, and was given to a local couple because Mr Garden told them they were the only folks he knew that would care for her like he would! She was lying in Port Townsend in WA state when I saw her. His island which he owned and lived on was in the Canadian Gulf Islands. Phil
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Old 15-11-2021, 03:37   #96
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

Hi, Newbie to the forum.
Just found this thread as going thru the same wood OR not decision process.
Same deal, have a boat in mind but been looking for insights.
I realise this topic is years old, but still just as valid and great to read.
Really makes you appreciate how useful forums like this are and the importance of keeping these threads available for others to find.
Brilliant.
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Old 15-11-2021, 04:50   #97
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

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Same deal, have a boat in mind but been looking for insights.
If you're still looking for insights concerning a wooded ocean cruiser, the chance is big that the answer is: Stay away from a wooden boat.

Most people grow into wooden boats slowly, starting out with small boats and fixing up boats until they have the knowledge and experience to successfully tackle a ocean cruiser.
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Old 15-11-2021, 04:50   #98
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

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Hi, Newbie to the forum.
Just found this thread as going thru the same wood OR not decision process.
Same deal, have a boat in mind but been looking for insights.
I realise this topic is years old, but still just as valid and great to read.
Really makes you appreciate how useful forums like this are and the importance of keeping these threads available for others to find.
Brilliant.
This is a question that almost answers itself. If you do not already have the skill and expertise to survey, repair and maintain a wood hull, then you probably shouldn't buy it IF your goal is to go cruising. If your goal is to learn to be shipright for wooden boats, a different storry.
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Old 15-11-2021, 05:24   #99
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

Restoration of a 1930s vintage Herreschoff 40 foot one design boat for a very well healed owner.

Well done 35 min video gives the inner workings of a wood boat.

https://youtu.be/oqaSWjtF8PI

Makes my wallet wheeze.

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Old 15-11-2021, 07:34   #100
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

Here is my answer:

Go to classic boat week in your fiberglass boat and admire all the wood while enjoying the fact that you do not have to be as masochistic (or rich) as those owners because fiberglass doesnt need a tenth of the maintenance that wood does.
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Old 15-11-2021, 08:36   #101
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

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Here is my answer:

Go to classic boat week in your fiberglass boat and admire all the wood while enjoying the fact that you do not have to be as masochistic (or rich) as those owners because fiberglass doesnt need a tenth of the maintenance that wood does.
I am speculating that you have never owned a wood boat.
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Old 15-11-2021, 09:14   #102
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

One should not confuse a De Vries Lentsch build with a backyard build, nor lump all wood construction in the same vein.
As with any/all materials, the original construction forms the baseline for any future maintenance issues.
Assuming a reasonably good initial build, the maintenance of a wood boat isn't all that much more,, it just requires some different skill sets.
Over a span of many years it's still much the same for any material;
It's the systems/engine/rigging/sails/heads/plumbing/electrical. that still require the effort/money.
Fiberglass is just more tolerant of gross neglect,, except for cored hulls/decks.
Also, unlike fiberglass/metal, their are several build iterations for wood, the "traditional" carvel plank-on-frame is far different from a cold-molded epoxy build,, light years apart.
I can find issues with most materials, both for and against.
My biggest gripe with fiberglass/metal is that the medium itself lends itself to the easy creation of uglyness.
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Old 15-11-2021, 09:33   #103
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

I stopped surveying wooden boats years ago.

A 36' glass boat takes one day to survey. The vast majority of wooden 36' will take three days to survey and involves pulling sample fasteners. Few owners will allow fasteners to be pulled for inspection.

Fewer and fewer people were willing to pay me for three days of work and frankly I was tired of giving people the news that they had wasted money on the survey.

Many marinas now refuse wooden boats and many are hard to insure.

No one without expertise in wooden boat construction methods, the equipment for repairs ((fully equipped wood working shop) and a knowledge of the various woods involved should own one unless they have a very fat wallet.
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Old 15-11-2021, 10:32   #104
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

I would not buy a wooden boat. Period, end of sentence, based on my personal observations.

My father built a lightning out of Port Orford cedar and mahagony. The finish was varnish, which required maintenance twice a year. He glassed over the wood below the waterline. The mahagony rudder broke in a grounding and he replaced it with oak. The boat sailed for 10 years in San Diego, then he sold it to a man who took it to the desert. The cedar planks dried out and cracked and the boat was scrap.

I have wandered around many boatyards, and each one has a wooden boat that needs scrapping. You can look at the boat and see where the new owner stopped removing bad wood and walked away.

It takes a rich man to maintain a wooden boat. I have a friend that bought David Crosby's old boat. He spends enough on maintenance every two years to buy a fiberglass boat of similar size, and the maintenance never stops.

I remember a 65 ft schooner that came into Boat Lagoon in Thailand with the pumps running continuously. The Thai shipwrights replaced all the hull planking, half the deck, and sistered half the frames.

I have seen Turkish Gulets, built from pine and galvanized nails, hogged and ready for scrap after 5 years.

I remember hauling a friend's wooden boat and seeing the keel timber riddled with Teredo worms.

All beautiful boats, but one sprung plank away from sinking.
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Old 15-11-2021, 10:42   #105
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Re: Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

As a young man, I bought a full keel, mahogany carvel plank on oak frame sloop. As I got into it, I ended up re-building nearly the entire boat over the 10 years I owned it. I probably spent 100 hrs working on it for every hour I spent sailing.
If you plan on becoming a shipwright, maybe, just maybe you can justify spending the next 10-30 years learning your basically obsolete craft.
If you want to sail and cruise on the ocean, stay away from wood plank on frame construction. Cold molded hulls are a totally different technology which some people are comfortable with and cruise the world in.
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