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Old 12-11-2008, 11:25   #1
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windows

would anyone care to express an opinion on craft that are designed with large window areas. We have been looking at a number of boats such as the Maple leaf which have a lovely well lit saloon but the downside is there is a lot of glass/lexan up there which would make me nervous in a really nasty sea. Can these things take a green water hit without caving?

We absolutely love the well lit salon and if it would come with a guarantee from god that we would never see a bad storm I would be writing this from the deck.

thanks in advance for your opinion
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:51   #2
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If they bother you, why not make storm shutters for them. Properly designed it should only take a few minutes to install them using wing nuts.
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Old 12-11-2008, 13:46   #3
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Probably more important than the glass/lexan is the quality of the frames. Both glass and lexan can "flex" and pop out of narrow frames.

Having said that, there are now thousands of "deck salon" and "pilot house" blue water cruisers. Does anyone have examples of a modern boat design losing it's glass in a storm?

Frankly, a bigger concern might be the portholes in the hull topsides. These can take a tremendous beating in a storm. If a leeward side port lets go, you have a serious problem...

If your frames are sturdy with enough supporting flange you could substantially increase the strength of the window by replacing the glass with one of the new laminated glasses.

And as suggested, it's cheap and easy to make lexan storm shutters that protect both the glass and the frames.

Carl
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Old 12-11-2008, 16:29   #4
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Hi all! Carl, although I cant cite specific boats now, I have heard of at least two relatively new yachts sunk or nearly sunken by stove in large windows. I agree with you about not using Glass/ Lexan/ Plexi mounted in small frames. The Dashews describe several window types in their book, the offshore cruising encyclo. that look much safer. I am currently refitting a Pilothouse motorsailer with large windows. We are using 1/2" tinted Lexan with 1/4" aluminum outer trim frames, which are thru bolted with 1/4" bolts all mounted OUTSIDE the house. They cant pop in or out, and if they're washed away, I think we will have a much bigger problem on our hands... Chris
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Old 12-11-2008, 16:42   #5
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thanks for the info

thanks everyone for their input.
The boat I am looking at is a maple leaf and I will be going down again tomorrow, weather permitting, and will make careful note of the frame size. I would think that if the frames are small than through bolting could potentially weaken the hole structure.

If anyone has any thoughts about the maple leaf I would love to hear them. There was quite an extensive discussion about the 42s but this is a 48. any Cooper fans or foes out there?

On a slightly lighter note, Christian how did you make or where did you get that picture of the shark/kitten. I was also laughing out loud (LOL to you texting types) with your valediction.


again thanks SK
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Old 12-11-2008, 17:52   #6
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A friend with a 45' fishing boat has 18" x 24" tempered glass windows in the pilothouse. 1/4" thick on the sides and 3/8" in front. He regularly takes green water onto the cabin and says he can't imagine the windows breaking. Come to think of it, all the commercial boats I have been on had similar sized, tempered glass windows in the pilothouse, as far as I know.

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Old 12-11-2008, 19:43   #7
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Hey Shawn! The kitty was emailed to me years ago. I have no idea who 'shopped it originally, but feel free to steal and use it. Email me if ya want a slightly larger version.

As for the windows, I wish I could remember the article I read about the danger of larger windows. It might have been in Soundings a couple years back. Storm shutters are always a good idea though. Lexan, plywood, or aluminum...just as long as they can fill a hole. Here's a pic of some well made pilothouse windows I found on the 'net:
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Old 12-11-2008, 19:53   #8
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I design commercial workboats for a living. If the shortest span is > 1m, the glass thickness required by class goes to 19mm or 21mm (~3/4") Classification societies are pretty conservative, but even so, glass windows of those thicknesses will break in the worst weather. It all depends on the shortest span.

Glass is a lot weaker than lexan or acrylic (plexiglas) so it has to be thicker. 1/4" glass would scare me unless it was a very small window.

I used 3/8" plexi on my own catamaran, and the span was about 500mm. It was glued on the outside of the cabin, no bolts. The trick with doing that is meticulous surface prep, THICK silicone, and a wide (50mm) overlap onto the cabin surface. We routinely now design workboat windows with such bonded windows and they are accepted by class societies.
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Old 13-11-2008, 02:52   #9
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Quote:
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I design commercial workboats for a living...
... I used 3/8" plexi on my own catamaran, and the span was about 500mm. It was glued on the outside of the cabin, no bolts. The trick with doing that is meticulous surface prep, THICK silicone, and a wide (50mm) overlap onto the cabin surface. We routinely now design workboat windows with such bonded windows and they are accepted by class societies.
You use Silicone w/out mechanical fasteners or "U" Chanel supports as a structural adhesive on Acrylic sheet ?
What type of Silicone ?
Fiberglass substrate ?
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Old 13-11-2008, 04:54   #10
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From what I'seen at the boat show lately, it looks like LOTS of manufacturers are bonding their salon windows without frames (Morris, Jenneau, Tartan, etc.). If Morris does it, it's probably OK.
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Old 13-11-2008, 05:30   #11
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From what I'seen at the boat show lately, it looks like LOTS of manufacturers are bonding their salon windows without frames (Morris, Jenneau, Tartan, etc.). If Morris does it, it's probably OK.
Yes indeed - C&C was doing it in the 80's (or earlier); but they were using structural Methacrylate Adhesives.
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Old 13-11-2008, 08:53   #12
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Those windows look familiar. I had a bit of leakage in a couple of the fronts. I went to polysulfide, and that fixed them.
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Old 13-11-2008, 10:02   #13
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I like the idea and look of the frameless window...if I had it to do over again I would look at it a bit harder and at what adheisives are available.

I went with double SS frames and 1/4 lexan with a half inch lap on the edges.
The max opening is about 13" x 30"
When I spec'ed them out, the 1/4 seemed plenty strong...especialy since there were no holes.
But after all I've read/heard I probably should have gone thicker.
In the pics, the side windows are completed, the forward are the base frame only.
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Old 13-11-2008, 10:57   #14
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I replaced my windows with half inch plexiglass and bonded them with the sika flex system. The largest windows are 14"x54". This spring two of the windows started to leak so I made frames using starboard and mounted them on the exterior. I feel that the window system is very secure.
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Old 13-11-2008, 11:01   #15
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What is Starboard?
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