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Old 18-09-2016, 09:58   #31
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

I cannot tell you what to do on your choices but I can tell you what I have done. I bought a good, solid boat (Camper Nicholson 39) that had been sitting on the hard for 5 years in Florida. Cosmetically on outside she needed a lot but hull (no balsa core crap), interior and motor were solid and she was built for the North Sea. She had only been used for cruising in the winter before that and hauled every year so her time sitting in salt water was limited. Being from the Great lakes I considered boats up here but hauling etc. made this boat a better option. That being said I am in the process of replacing the following:

1. Rig and chainplates....................................... ............................$8000
2. Sails (main, mizzen, storm sailsail, 115% jib, code zero)..........$12,000
3. New halyards and lines............................................. .................$3000
4. Electronics (including autopilot)........................................ ..........$5000
5. New fridge/freezer........................................... ...........................$3000
6. Misc.............................................. .............................................$5000

So I've got $36k so far in repairs for her so far. Sweat equity I did not count since I did much of my own work. But I paid $24 for this boat and when it's done (is it ever?) I will have something that I KNOW I can count on, rather than buying someone else's maybe they replaced it, maybe they didn't. I really don't want to find out on a lee shore when she's blowing 40.....I know what I've got.
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Old 18-09-2016, 10:54   #32
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

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Originally Posted by ToddMc View Post
I am retiring in 5 years and the wife agreed to our plan of picking up a (near) 40 ft sailboat in a few years and start our (bluewater) sailing adventure. Question is, that I will have around 60K and have been searching at mostly Beneteau, but they seem out of my price range. What other brands/models might would be good for our quest? I am VERY mechanically inclined but do not want to do a total rebuild. Is 60K enough for that size boat?

Would it be best to find something up here in the great lakes where there is no saltwater? And then sail it south later?

"retirement cant come soon enough" the only problem with that is I am getting older, and don't want that! Even though i will only be 54 and the wife 48. I guess it's not so bad

ToddMc
The answer is yes but why restrict yourself to a Beneteau?
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Old 18-09-2016, 11:07   #33
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by onthewateralot View Post
I cannot tell you what to do on your choices but I can tell you what I have done. I bought a good, solid boat (Camper Nicholson 39) that had been sitting on the hard for 5 years in Florida. Cosmetically on outside she needed a lot but hull (no balsa core crap), interior and motor were solid and she was built for the North Sea. She had only been used for cruising in the winter before that and hauled every year so her time sitting in salt water was limited. Being from the Great lakes I considered boats up here but hauling etc. made this boat a better option. That being said I am in the process of replacing the following:

1. Rig and chainplates....................................... ............................$8000
2. Sails (main, mizzen, storm sailsail, 115% jib, code zero)..........$12,000
3. New halyards and lines............................................. .................$3000
4. Electronics (including autopilot)........................................ ..........$5000
5. New fridge/freezer........................................... ...........................$3000
6. Misc.............................................. .............................................$5000

So I've got $36k so far in repairs for her so far. Sweat equity I did not count since I did much of my own work. But I paid $24 for this boat and when it's done (is it ever?) I will have something that I KNOW I can count on, rather than buying someone else's maybe they replaced it, maybe they didn't. I really don't want to find out on a lee shore when she's blowing 40.....I know what I've got.
And this is exactly the reason many folks elect to refit a great solid older classic boat (Camper Nicholson is definitely in that club!), even at great expense and possible ridicule of others, when they could have bought a newer, well-equipped, boat for the same price or less... you know exactly what you have, and you appreciate it all the more, everyday, the whole way. I posted the link of the complete refit of a Rhodes 41 in the plastic classics... certainly many folks will look at that and say, "What a waste; he could have had a well-equipped, roomier, faster, more maneuverable more modern boat for half the money!" But I'd sure prefer that Rhodes if I could afford it. But that is just me. On the other hand I'd still stand behind the idea that it is also a good plan to get a great, proven, boat that is already in a great place. And though a cored hull might not be my first choice, I would not say they all necessarily qualify as crap.
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Old 18-09-2016, 12:20   #34
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

My thoughts on comparing refitting vs. buying as-is are that regardless if it is a proven type of boat things wear out, oxidize, absorb water (like balsa core!), electronics need updating, etc. If you can replace/refit/upgrade the things that need to be done ...then you know what you have. You have no way of knowing sometimes, as in the case of chain plates when they were re-done or even the rig sometimes when you are buying used. In both cases if they break the results are catastrophic. I prefer to just replace and then be done with it.
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Old 18-09-2016, 12:32   #35
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

As with so many things about boats, you have to ask the right question:

1. Can the OP buy a 40ft offshore boat for $60,000 - Yes

2. Can the OP buy a 40ft boat AND equip it for a multi-year cruise for $60,000? - No

I would budget $20,000 from buying the boat to pushing off from the dock. This money is not for repairs to meet survey. It's for the "nice to have" things he's going to decide he wants for his new cruising life. This list is just some examples:

Replace dinghy and outboard
Solar panels
A new sail or two
New interior cushions (your wife will insist)
Better inverter/charger. New batteries
New chartplotter
Liferaft
New-gen anchor
Replace dodger and bimini

And another $5000 of "stuff" - spare engine parts, safety gear, galley equipment, LED lights, and so forth.

Not everything on the above list will be needed, but you'll need most on a boat older than 10 years. And while nothing on the list is essential to cruising, virtually everyone equipping a new boat ultimately decides they want it.

As others have suggested - a 32ft-35ft boat is the right range for a $60,000 "buy and equip" budget. And it's a great size boat for a couple.

Carl
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Old 18-09-2016, 13:24   #36
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

Lot's of good advice here. My suggestion would be to identify a few boat types that are popular in your area and you like. Then wait until the right boat comes along to purchase. The right boat means one in good condition wrt to the key items that are expensive to replace. This means rigging, engine, sails. Everything else is not that hard to upgrade.

You can get a good electronics package including autopilot, chart and radar for less than $2,000. Replacing head, hoses, cushions, etc. is mostly sweat equity. You can build yourself a watermaker inexpensively for about $1,500. Solar panels will cost nothing in 3-4 years time and so on. Yes, a life raft is expensive but think of it as life insurance and you will easily justify the cost.

People who say that a Beneteau or a Hunter is not blue water capable lack perspective in my opinion. Any fiberglass boat built in the last 30 years is much more capable than the wooden boats from 50 years ago that have crossed oceans many times. Lightly built boats will be less comfortable in a storm but then you have a limited budget and something needs to give. It is a question of comfort not survival. The boat will survive your skill many times over. Thus, with a limited budget I would invest in training and seamanship instead of getting the greatest, slow, heavy, cramped heavy cruiser optimized for 50 knot winds when the time you will spend in such conditions is probably less than 3%. You can always get unlucky though

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Old 18-09-2016, 14:07   #37
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

There are plenty of boats in your budget. Start shopping around in the 25+ years old/36 - 38ft bracket. Something like this.

1984 Beneteau First 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 18-09-2016, 14:44   #38
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

OK, here is a completely impractical, yet perfect, choice, at least for me... add 25K worth of stuff and I'd be VERY happy!
1965 Rhodes Pearson Rhodes Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
1965 Pearson Rhodes Rhodes 41 Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Drat! Sold!
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Old 18-09-2016, 15:19   #39
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

Don, I'd be very happy with either of those too. Well cared for. You can feel the owner's pride in the ad. I'm willing to bet those boats have great karma. Something you can't have too much of offshore.

And you've found a way to get the PO a 40' boat for his budget - it just comes with a 28' waterline

Carl
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Old 18-09-2016, 15:24   #40
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
Don, I'd be very happy with either of those too. Well cared for. You can feel the owner's pride in the ad. I'm willing to bet those boats have great karma. Something you can't have too much of offshore.

And you've found a way to get the PO a 40' boat for his budget - it just comes with a 28' waterline
Oh yes, it is a 32 foot boat with a 41 foot fairing!
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Old 18-09-2016, 15:34   #41
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

Absolutely i have a Bayfield 40 and wouldnt trade it for any other boat. Built solid cutter/ketch rig with low freeboard and traditional lines Just saw one go up for sale on the Bayfield owners Facebook page
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Old 19-09-2016, 12:17   #42
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

I've been looking seriously at blue water craft for over a year. The only two capable craft that I have consistently seen under $60k are Corbin les Bateaux (39' with several layouts available) and Whitby 42. There are several of each on YW presently including two Corbin's in Halifax-both with a brand new 60 hp Volvo with folding prop.
Although we have decided on a blue water multi, the best value Corbin I have seen is here:
1980 CORBIN Corbin 39 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


Good luck!
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Old 19-09-2016, 14:50   #43
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

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I've been looking seriously at blue water craft for over a year. The only two capable craft that I have consistently seen under $60k are Corbin les Bateaux (39' with several layouts available) and Whitby 42. There are several of each on YW presently including two Corbin's in Halifax-both with a brand new 60 hp Volvo with folding prop.
I admit I am unfamiliar with the Corbin les Bateaux, but looking at the photos, it does not appear to meet the criteria for a good example of a blue water vessel. Just as a start, I saw all those unprotected plastic(?) hatches. Second I saw what I believe was a very low bridge between the companionway and the cockpit. It was a bit difficult to see in the photos, but if it is as I describe, that alone is, to my mind, disqualifying. As an aside, I have a personal distaste for rudders hung from a skeg.

I could go on, but it all goes back to both opinions and learning more so you, and the OP, have them and can justify them at least to yourself and loved ones. Read, read, talk, talk, listen, listen, and learn, learn, but do not ever seriously consider claims in adverts or by dealers and other sellers.
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Old 19-09-2016, 15:13   #44
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

Not sure if this posted the first time, sorry if its a repeat,

I have a nice Beny for sale, may or maynot be for blue water.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/59321

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Old 19-09-2016, 19:20   #45
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Re: Will 60K buy a good bluewater boat ?

My wife and I have been inland racing sailors for 30+ years, and chartered in the BVI and St vincent and the Grenadines a number of times over the past 16 years. We just bought a rare custom steel ketch in Martinique for about $80K US and will move aboard in January. We looked at a Jeanneau 42CC and a Beneteau 44CC, both similar cabin layout with an aft stateroom and forward v berth. Both were about $10K higher.

But, 40 ft is really a minimum if you are going to live aboard and like more sleeping comfort than a sofa in the living room. Cabin and deck layout are critical to not only safety but comfort. Look for lots of secure passage fore and aft on deck and below, and at the companionway. I love the spaciousness of the contemporary production salons (e.g., the Jeannneau 42CC) BUT there is nary a handrail to be found other than at the companionway entrance. I've been thrown more than once off a step, or across all that open space, in a sea wishing for a handrail. If you are retiring, you're likely an age where a crash landing could be more than just a sore spot on a shoulder.

Best advice I can give is to take advantage of the 5 years you have and charter a different boat design every year. Try out something under 40' once and see what kind of comfort it has - generally, 40 ft is the minimum to get a decent double or island berth for 2, as well as other comfort below and spaciousness to be topside for living space at anchor. Try out various boats 40 and over, with an eye to what SEEMS like it would be a design you'd like to live on. And then sail for at least 10 days on every charter, it's the only way to see what really is and isn't comfortable, and to get a sense of what full time life aboard (even for just months each year) will be like.

Once you've chartered even a few different designs, you'll have a much better idea of what makes a boat comfortable for you, and how big is too big to handle for just the two of you (well rigged boats generally are good up to 50 ft or so for just two, but keep in mind that every ft of mast height makes that main sail that much heavier to hoist, or fold when it comes off the boom).

By the way, the BVI is very crowded but is probably the most forgiving place in the caribbean to start sailing on relatively open water. As you head east to the eastern leewards and the windwards, larger seas are common, you'll have longer open water sailing, and you'll deal with westward gulf stream flow as well. Getting more experience in a gentler cruising ground like the BVI will help prepare you for the more adventurous eastern waters.

Best of luck for the future you're planning!
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