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Old 27-10-2010, 11:51   #31
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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post

1 (...) As for moving to the safer quadrant of a tropical storm. Certainly it's possible, but past threads on the subject of "outrunning bad weater" indicate, few have examples of actually doing it.

2 (...) My point is that if outrunning bad weather is the reason for choosing a less seaworthy boat, you have to depend on having luck on your side most, if not all of the time.

3 (...) I have personal experience with being in a situation where the typhoon tracked in such a way that there would have been no chance to move out of danger even if the boat did 10 knots. Having a stout, seaworthy boat was, in that case quite literally, a real life saver.
add 1: How about all those cruisers in West Indies who move on to another island when a system is forecast to move thru their hole?

add 2: Light and fast does not imply less seaworthy. You have jumped to an easy conclusion here.

add 3: Only if you have sailing habits that reflect your boat's sailing characteristics. A racing sailor might in fact feel and be safer in a lighter quicker boat where he/she is in control of what and how the boat does.

However, we have drifted into an area visited before and probably of nil interest to the OP.

b.
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Old 27-10-2010, 11:52   #32
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Old 27-10-2010, 11:54   #33
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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
add 2: Light and fast does not imply less seaworthy. You have jumped to an easy conclusion here.

b.
Nope, I didn't say that. You missed the operative IF.

What I did say is that depending on outrunning weather means you need to be lucky a lot more of the time than my experience has shown prudent.
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Old 27-10-2010, 11:58   #34
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Originally Posted by mintyspilot View Post
About out-running bad weather...



... so a course going SE or NW would be advisable.
as is often the case in the Chessie, however, that advisory was issued as the storm was over Annapolis. That, combined with the Chesapeake being a very narrow body of water, it might not have been practical.

In any case, it's just a theoretical example. Regardless, it wouldn't have been a very good idea to go out on the water today.
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Old 27-10-2010, 12:05   #35
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One item I noticed from above is "narrower boats often have more ballast". If thats true it would seem better to have more ballast for stability.
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Old 27-10-2010, 12:30   #36
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With ballast lets not forget keel length.

Think of a corked wine bottle -1/3-1/2 filled with sand in the water.

However, my current fantasy of any boat is an OVNI or a BOREAL - both centerboards.
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Old 27-10-2010, 12:59   #37
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ok--- fast vs slow cruising... outrunning storms...lightning....here goes----LOL:
for a near year i cruised the gulf in a performance cruiser m=notmy own. was fast and fun sailing. we were caught by thunderstorms not on th e weathermans grid--- local only stufff n=and we sailed tjhru buoy to buoy sec=vere lightning storms off appalachicola.
1- you are NOT going to any "safe quadrant"..lol..your winds are light and flukey before them and you dont see them at night.LOL.. have fun.. we sailed thru them at speed and slowed--- we had a ball at 10 knots, but we had no margin for error. oops. we slowed down. making 8 kts.
youarenot going to get out of it. sorry. dont even think that. you MIGHT be fortunate enough to find self a proper quadrant by no fault of your own. lol chances are--NOT..
outrunning a storm--at 7 kts against its HOW many?? usually storms are moving about 10-20?? lol guess again. sukit up--yer SAILING! hang on and go forit--might as well-- your storm wont last long enough to get your fancy tackle out and deployed--

as for lightning protection--lol-- the only well protected boat i ever knew was one that was hit twice in 4 yrs--owned by a nasa engineer. so -- what are you protecting?? isnt gonna happen. we had nothing except a kat, crocs and rubber foulies. we didnt get hit. whew. musta been kat did it. there is no written history of a kat being hit by ghtning...therefore he is a deterrent. crocs repel everything-- and they are rubber--- lol works great.


btw--i could feel the tingling of the lightning on the bilge covers--the part that es metal....lol was strange. but we didnt get hit. stuff was EVERYWHERE....

storms--we sailed for 3 days thru lightning storms labelled severe by noaa and winds were spozedly 71 knots in them.
are we crazy?? we were 100 mi out--where are we gonna find "immediate shelter"..LOL..are ye gonna getonline and whine to friends??hell no--aint internetz out there anyway--lol-- just freeking sail the boat and shutup--make a ditch bag-pray to the gods of the sea and tell davey jones he dont want no part o'yer scurvey ass... and ye will get thru it. you are stronger than ye think, and even a catalina 27 can get thru storms successfully if sailed by sailors.(man-0-man, did i ever want to have my formosa under me for that !!-- but we did it!)

stats of that performance cruiser--- lgth-37, beam- 12, keel- 4 1/2 ft deep.
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Old 27-10-2010, 13:47   #38
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It is not?

And I will say the success is everywhere. A good sailor will not cross the ocean if the boat fails. Neither will an ignorant sailor cross an ocean in a well prepared Oyster(a) (*).
(*I am ready to review my view on this one)
b.
Las Palmas
where the ARC starts
I suspect (a) has already been done. Too many times!

A good sailor would ensure that his boat was seaworthy, yes, but this would be concern over the keel attachment, not chord of the keel. It would be over the state of the boats deck to hull bond, not whether it is screwed or bolted. And it would be over the shape of the boats running and standing rigging, not the shape of the hull. I cannot imagine any delivery boat skipper turning down a job simply over the shape of a hull. I can certainly see it over the condition of a boat.
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Old 27-10-2010, 13:55   #39
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In fact I do not know of any book written on the subject by someone in a modern designed purpose built cruiser thats authoritive on the subject.

Mark
So what your saying is there is an opportunity in the market for a book written by an ordinary sailor using a standard production yacht who has covered some serious miles recently.

So who do we know who has:

a. A standard Production yacht like a Beneteau.
b. Recently sailed a fair way around the world.
c. Has some time on their hands.
d. No hang ups about needing a long keeled 1960s yacht.



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Old 27-10-2010, 14:22   #40
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Old 27-10-2010, 16:37   #41
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There's no evidence that long slender yachts are are more seaworthy then beamy boats , both designs taken to extremes can be very unsafe Long and slender mainly derived from racing requirements in the 20,s ( when hydrodynamics was poorly understood) yet the European caravel was an extremely beamy boat for it's length.

I also agree with the comments 're the various books on the subject alard Coles book is dated irrespective of the updates. And the pardeys is fine but out of touch with modern boats. There is certainly a gap in the Market. ( though much has been written in the better magazines over the years ).

Heavy weather is not about full v fin or beam but each boat has to sailed taking into account her peculiarities. What works with one design may be inappropriate for another. What makes a good sailor is select the correct option and knowledge to use it properly.

Dave
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Old 27-10-2010, 17:46   #42
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my boat is 1976 built--- designed in what, 1960's?? by wm garden--my beam is 12 ft, depth 6'6"........is very heavy and sits in water like a brick and cuts thru seas like a charging lion. is awesome to see. but , yes, IS designed 40 yrs ago. ALL our old standby heavy displacement cruisers are 40 yrs old or older in design.
so what IS the new replacement for these heavy full keel cruisers? these -- by these i mean the heavy displacement cruiser in general, certain in specific, as westsail-- have proven them selves worthy of facing big seas and surviving. what is our new design to replace these?? will it meet the perfect storm test?? what will be designed, or has it already been designed-- to replace these heavy ladies (mine is a big momma)???
My boat is hull #19 out of 150 built in march of 1972 its solid and perfect for me all I can handle by my self. Easy as a sunfish to sail. A very capeable boat very smooth ride and good speed very responsive and points well. I want the 50 which is the same design Im happy with what I have it would be more to clean and take care of {DREAMS} you gotta have um ! I still love the 1 I have cause she is sweet
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Old 27-10-2010, 17:49   #43
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There's no evidence that long slender yachts are are more seaworthy then beamy boats (...)
You sure?

I think Marchaj wrote about this too. Read his book on seaworthiness?

b.
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Old 27-10-2010, 17:56   #44
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Easy as a sunfish to sail.
I don't think they make a number big enough to express the number of times a sunfish dumped me in the drink when I was a teenager
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Old 27-10-2010, 18:01   #45
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There's no evidence that long slender yachts are are more seaworthy then beamy boats (...)
You sure?

I think Marchaj wrote about this too. Read his book on seaworthiness?
I have it and several others his conclusions are many ( also see beam and breaking waves ) he outlines the issues but doesn't necessarily conclude that one is better over the other.

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