Why are metal boats popular among seasoned cruisers?

[Freedom45]

It's illegal to put plastic in the ocean!

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Among cruisers who replace their boat after several years of bluewater cruising, it is common to select a metal boat (steel or aluminum).

Where did you get this info? While I've seen metal boats they are rare in the locations I've been to.

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Of course, not ALL experienced cruisers follow that pattern. For instance, after nearly thirty years of fiberglass boat ownership and 17 years of full time cruising, we switched from glass to timber... strip planked western red cedar and epoxy, with thin glass inside and out. Light, strong and very low maintenance. Not as puncture proof as metal, but with two crash bulkheads forward and one aft, and tanks that make much of the hull a double hull, well, we reckon it's an OK way to build a cruising boat.

And I've seen a few folks with metal boats reverting to glass, mostly because of maintenance issues, and some because of weight issues. It isn't a one way street!

Jim

Just an observation, Jim, FWIW. Of those I've known who had wooden vessels, the problems and maintenance issues they encountered never seemed to have anything to do with the fact that the vessels were made of wood.

[hpeer]

Speaking with a French Steel cruiser yesterday, the first thing he noted was how rare Steel is in the USA. I think there is some regionalism to the build material.

I don’t know that it’s a “Steel” issue so much as comfort. Are you buying a “sailboat” or a “mobile home”? I get that our boat is not as fast as most other boats. OTOH, while sitting in rolly anchorages we continually note our motion is somewhere between a normal monohull and a cat. That is more of a “heavy” thing than a Steel thing. Lots of inertia. Comfortable on the hook.

And they are dry, inside, another comfort factor. And safe, comfort of mind.”

Maybe another way to look at it is; are you sailors or tourists? Does your priority lean toward performance or speed?

There are way too many poorly built or poorly maintained steel boats and they go for cheap. I don’t think experienced cruisers are often getting caught in that trap, but it might contribute to your observation.

[ZULU40]

Possibly not so popular in the US where plastic prevails, but totally normal in the Netherlands where they make up half the private boats and all the commercial ones. At one time considered the ultimate cruiser because of its strength and endurance.

Many homebuilt plans providers cut their teeth on steel designs, where all one needed to do was learn to weld. Hence there were a lot of pretty roughly built home builder boats. Anytime a modification was sought just cut your way in and weld more stuff on. A completed steel hull doesnt depend much on framing so they also offered that flexibility.

There is really nothing else you would prefer to be on if you happened to crash into a coral reef at night or run aground, but they have more than their fair share of maintenance issues. Where one needs to keep a reserve of touch up paint in some handy place on the boat because you will use it often.

They arent really all that suitable for designs under 36ft, because to keep the weight down the hull plating tends to be very thin, since most cruising sail boats are less than that, there are naturally less of them around.

A 14m Dutch traditional lee-board yacht built from steel, 0.89m draft 975,000 euros

[nortonscove]

Ironically PBO did a piece where they researched keel loss and they found that it occurs most often in steel and aluminum boats due to poor build quality by boats built outside reputable yards.

[sainted]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Except there's not anything called a prototype with production boats either. Of course they might take some minor upgrades after enough of warranty issues but the hull and all the "numbers" stay the same regardless..

Teddy

Actually, that's not true. I owned a Columbia 57, one of the later builds, and I am familiar with hull #1, Magic. Columbia added significantly more ballast after Magic and a taller rig.

Scott

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Ironically PBO did a piece where they researched keel loss and they found that it occurs most often in steel and aluminum boats due to poor build quality by boats built outside reputable yards.

That is so WRONG it’s not funny.

They found that metal KEELS fall off PLASTIC boats. I grant the article was worded poorly, yet if you read carefully the message clear.

There is one instance where a Steel boat had a bolt on keep that failed. Very unusual design built to have a removable keel to facilitate trucking. We have beat this to death elsewhere.

In the vast majority of Steel or aluminum boats the keel simply can not fall off. It’s like saying “The hull fell off”, makes no sense.

[mindsofman]

I have a French built, multi chine , twin
Rudder , 42ft alloy yacht..
Pounded on a reef for 8 hours during
A hurricane..snapped one of the rudders
Off (where it was supposed to ) and
Dented the bow a little...because the keel
Was up, no damage to that.repairs were
Simple and no epoxy mixing.
This is one incredibly strong boat..its 25
Years old, has no corrosion that I can find
And sails extremely well..
There are faster, prettier, more comfort,
More convenient, etc etc yachts out there
But making 7-8kts at night, up the sth
American or east american coasts, large
Tree's /containers (they are there, believe
Me ) waiting to pounce, the only thing that
Worries me is cruise ships bearing down
To take photo's..
Then again, I do dream of heading to brazil
And building a strip planked epoxy combo
But thats another life time

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by sainted

Actually, that's not true. I owned a Columbia 57, one of the later builds, and I am familiar with hull #1, Magic. Columbia added significantly more ballast after Magic and a taller rig.

Scott

Anything more resent? Fifty years ago a lot of things were different.

Teddy

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by TJ D

It comes down to strength. Not much else to it as far as I can tell.

Steel's a pain after the initial 'honeymoon' period when new, unless it's a really high-end build.

I've owned 2 glass boats, one steel, and the current one is carbon fiber.

The steel boat had a big dent in the bottom from hitting a shipping container at 7 knots off S. Africa. None of my others would have survived that impact, they would have sunk, and quickly. The carbon boat has a bunch of Kevlar in the bottom, so maybe it would have held together a little longer, but the glass boats? Glug, glug.

I think that about sums it up!

TJ

Pretty much. We chose steel to give us a second chance in terms of whales, containers and navigational errors. We also liked that we could have a greater percentage of interior space for stowage and, with a full keel, a measure of easy tracking under sail steered by windvane without a particularly deep keel, allowing, via the use of beaching legs, the option of drying out in tidal waters to paint or do repairs in two hours or less, depending on the tides.

The compromise involves a far deeper understanding of cathodic protection, a wary and prophylactic approach to rust remediation and paint chemistry, and a world cruising capable boat that will, despite its hull speed of 7.3 knots, more likely average 5 over a circ. We are resigned to heaving to when other, quicker vessels would run off, but then we carry more batteries, more battery charging sources, a more powerful engine and a greater fuel, water, stores, tools and provisions load than equivalent FG boats of the same LOA. And she sails better than you'd think.

But unless you are richer or more skilled than most, you can't buy a boat like this. You have to build it or buy it from someone who commissioned a design for the materials. That's the tricky part, because a design that is appropriately strong and well-composed for either steel or alu is not necessarily the same thing as what ends up being built by amateurs or even small-boat builders in terms of proper prep, specialized welding procedures or keeping the weight down to the designer's scantlings and specifications. There's a lot of Bruce Roberts designs out there that displace 30-50% more than BR intended and were rusting out on delivery. The price of small metal boats is prep, more prep and then jumping on every issue you see with Ospho and two-part topcoat. It's not onerous in terms of labour, but metal boats are ignored in maintenance terms at one's peril because rust never sleeps in salt water, and only naps in fresh.

[sailnautilus]

A strong vote for aluminum here, been sailing a 52’ Kanter for 12 years. Aluminum yachts are typically constructed as a “monocoque”, that is the entire hull and deck are welded in one piece.....no deck leaks, no hull to deck joints issues.
The chain plates are welded for 4’ along a rib and extend through the welded deck. No chain plate issues.
The boat is solid, quiet, well insulated and has watertight collision compartments fore and aft. Our vessel is painted, but unpainted versions reduce all exterior maintenance.....a valued attribute in remote cruising locations....
The boat is over 20 years old, and had one small corrosion issue. We got an aluminum welder, he cut the piece out and had a new one welded in before lunch.....before the broken catamaran next to us had the first layer of fiberglass drying on a multi day repair.
Diligence is required...as stainless and aluminum are not friends. We should take stock in Tefgel, caulk and Delrin washers and bushings, these all protect the aluminum.
The lack of knowledge about aluminum boats, amongst American sailors in particular, is always surprising. Also, aluminum boats seem to take a hit on the resale market because of misconceptions....

[roland stockham]

Although a perpetual problem keeping rust streaks at bay I think having a deck that NEVER leaks and being able to weld bomb proof cleats and stanchion wherever you want them could be a big appeal. Deck strength may be more of an issue than hull strength. There is also the fact that you can get steel repairs done anywhere including the local yard that does fishing boats, wood and fiberglass are more specialist and need developed world facilities or rare and advance boat building skills.

[jasbee]

Steel boats rust, fiberglass gets Osmosis and alloy can corrode too if it's not strictly built and with electrical items properly installed.
In my humble (and biased!) opinion, a good quality timber built hull is the only way to go. If it's properly built and maintained, it will easily outlast any of the aforementioned materials.
I have a planked (carvel) timber yacht (1.75 inches thick) - built in NZ in NZ native Kauri and Teak. She is 40 years old and as good today as when she was launched in 1978. My partner and I sailed her from NZ in 2011 to Thailand via New Caledonia, Australia, Indonesia and Malaysia. Earlier this year we had her shipped (to avoid the pirates) from Phuket, Thailand to Fethiye, Turkey. She is on the market now due to our advancing years but she is more than capable of cruising on. She is a 12 ton (displacement) Gauntlet design. Gauntlets were designed in 1934 in England and many of them from that era are still sailing.
If anyone is interested we'd be pleased to hear from you.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Of course, not ALL experienced cruisers follow that pattern. For instance, after nearly thirty years of fiberglass boat ownership and 17 years of full time cruising, we switched from glass to timber... strip planked western red cedar and epoxy, with thin glass inside and out. Light, strong and very low maintenance. Not as puncture proof as metal, but with two crash bulkheads forward and one aft, and tanks that make much of the hull a double hull, well, we reckon it's an OK way to build a cruising boat.

And I've seen a few folks with metal boats reverting to glass, mostly because of maintenance issues, and some because of weight issues. It isn't a one way street!

Jim

That's true. We are going to start a circ while I am in my 50s, my wife is in her 40s and we have a son in his late teens. Ten years on, with only two of us, I might have an entirely different game plan and boat preference. Also, GRP sandwiched timber boats strike me as a good choice for offshore, save that you have to be very careful with full isolation of through-deck and hull fittings to avoid core rot. The worst part of owning a 1970s C&C design was the sad finding that the balsa deck was not isolated with strategically placed FG "pads" where cleats and other fittings were through-bolted. I had to drill and fill a great deal to remedy that oversight, especially in a climate with freeze-thaw cycles that led to delamination.