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Old 04-10-2010, 04:53   #61
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justthinking -coming from a 60ft steel boat of any kind I would think would make it hard to evaluate a probable 40 something lightweight fibreglass boat.

"Only did two trips on (a) a Bavaria and (b) a Dehler and both were about as equally scarry"

I suggest you look around for a small disused freighter to replace your 60ft steel what ever.
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Old 04-10-2010, 04:56   #62
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I suggest you look around for a small disused freighter to replace your 60ft steel what ever.
Tststststststs!

......
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Old 04-10-2010, 05:03   #63
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Not sure I follow your post - Bavaria's have NEVER had a keel stepped mast on a 38. If there is a 5cm gap around a mast collar (I might be mistaken but I think that is what you are saying) it was put there by a Bavaria hater!

Either way as skipper I would be very worried.
The Bavaria Match 38 has a keel stepped mast.

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Old 04-10-2010, 06:00   #64
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Hi Boxhead

Don't you have a few low hung bridges up your way as well?
Tried to warn you about em bridges and me post disappeared Maybe this just aint the place for little port hoppers like me?
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Old 04-10-2010, 06:07   #65
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I personally prefer British built and designed boats because they seem to follow the rule of thumb: "form follows function" while the french tend to get carried away with "design" and sometimes fall for the "function follows beauty" trap.
Many an UK built/designed boat seems to be plain ugly - but these things take their crews around the world, and again, and again - even outside the coconut-milk-run.
outside of Oyster, is there one left ( british built boats).

Look we all cant afford mega billions for customised put together with love etc stuff.

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while the french tend to get carried away with "design" and sometimes fall for the "function follows beauty" trap.
Firstly Bavarias arnt French, They are from a land that supposedily puts engineering excellence above all.

The French tend to design fast boats thats their thing, try convincing any french man that a long keel is usefull, I have , they just laugh.

The Big French builders, Beneteau and Jeanneau ( which is 100% owned by Beneteau), build a strong reliable boat to a price point, and they use mass production techniques to keep the price controllable.

I wouldnt rate Bavarias as up there with Beneteaus and I d rate Jeanneau above Beneteau. But Bavarias are not bad and they will get you where you want to go,

As to the hull twisting , yes some Bavarias seem to prone to it, as are Gib Seas and Grand Soleils. I once poped the forward cabin doors on a Gib Sea in a seaway

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Old 04-10-2010, 06:22   #66
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outside of Oyster, is there one left ( british built boats).
Oyster
Discovery
Rustler
Southerly
British Hunter

just to name a few. Yes, mostly more expensive makes.

I reckon the UK is a good place to build boats, at least, non-production boats. There are a tremendous number of highly skilled craftsmen, and although the UK is not known to be a cheap place, the cost of skilled marine labor is surprisingly reasonable. I pay only 33 pounds per hour gross including VAT (about $50) for first-class mechanical, electrical, engine work, and less for rigging. I paid more for much less quality in the U.S.
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:52   #67
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The Bavaria Match 38 has a keel stepped mast.
I wouldn’t think the Match 38 is a typical or representative of Bavaria yachts.

From a review of the Match 3
8
Bavaria Yachts 38 Match

“... The most eyecatching feature of the first Match 38 is its carbon fibre mast, demonstrating how great a departure the new model is for Bavaria. Both carbon fibre and aluminium rigs are available, with the carbon rig adding about $40,000 to the base price of $285,000 in Australia.

North South Yachting says it will offer both versions here, believing that the aluminium rig version will appeal to club racers moving up from boats like J35s, Cavalier 35s and Farr 11.6s, while the carbon rig will attract the more serious IMS and IRC racer.

Unlike its cruising cousins, the 38 Match rig is keel-stepped and includes stainless steel rod standing rigging in the standard package...”
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:25   #68
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I had a look at a Bavaria 38.... no mast on the inside
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:23   #69
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Why not a deck-stepped mast?

b.
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:27   #70
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And I would not shun Dehler either - there are at least three on the neighbouring dock and they go racing every weekend. Doesn't look like they are about to fall apart.

I have seen the newer 34 in action and she looks well built and fast too.

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Old 04-10-2010, 12:39   #71
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I had a look at a Bavaria 38.... no mast on the inside
Not the 38; the 38 MATCH.
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Old 04-10-2010, 13:33   #72
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Yes, alright, the match did have a keel stepped rig. My apologies, they were an interesting experiment into the IMS class under the Bavaria banner, they aren't to my knowledge mainstream cruising boats.
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Old 04-10-2010, 14:05   #73
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Back to the original post, Firstly I don't own a boat and have very little sailing experience (CYA basic cruising course on a Catalina 28 footer and a bare boat charter of a Beneteau Oceanis 40 footer). I have been looking for 3-4 years at boats. Back when my wife and I first started thinking about cruising, we went to the the Annapolis boatshow, we came away from that show with several favorite boats, the Hanse I recall was our favorite. We were unimpressed by the Hinckleys and the Pacific Seacraft, the Hallberg Rasseys and the Malo and Najad, boy were those boats cramped and dark! We much preferred the wide open spaces afforded by the modern french and german designed boats. Then we went through a catamaran stage, definitely a cat for us, A Fountain Pajot or Leopard. Fast unsinkable loads of space. Dolphins frolicking under the trampoline etc.. Next time we went to the Annapolis show we started really talking to the sales people and sometimes the owners and were not so intimidated by the event, if you don't know the difference between a deck stepped mast and a keel stepped mast, or what a dutchman is or what lazyjacks do, you can feel quite out of your depth. plus we had another years research under our belts. We went back to the Hanse and couldn't quite believe that it was actually on our list! the floor panels moved and pinched bare feet, the vast expanses of white plastic, the sharp corners which looked modern now just looked sharp. We went to look at catamarans in the moorings and sunsail fleets and it was like being inside a giant hot tub with ikea cabinets bolted to the walls. Back on the Hinckley and Pacific Seacraft we couldn't help but admire the craftsmanship, but they were still cramped and dark, the Hallberg Rassey, Malo. Najad all made it to our list as did Hylas Tayana, Oyster, Discovery and Tartan. All these are "stick built" vs hull and liner. Unfortunately this comes at a cost so now we have to decide between an older stick built vs a newer hull/liner vessel. And we have to factor in the 80/20 rule. what will the boat be used for 80% of the time? cruising around a coast or in a marina/on the hook vs on a passage. realistically 90% of the time we will be coastal cruising or moored somewhere, so the passagemaking capabilities are less of a concern for us, but with 3 kids (17, 5 and 2yrs old) a stick built boat sure would make me feel more comfortable exposing my kids to a crossing. Oh and we added Wauquiez to that list (my wife loves the pilot salon) I believe that the reason people don't like Bavaria's is because they use a hull/liner construction, stick built is better (my opinion) but it costs more. Between the hull liner boats there are probably some better than others, at the boat show we ended up calling all the production boats "Jeneteaulinas" - Jenneau Beneteau Catalina - couldn't quite shoehorn Hunter in there. Still having said all that the Beneteau we sailed in Greece and the Catalina we learned in were both fit for that purpose, the Catalina seemed more solidly built, but maybe that was because it was smaller. with our budget I would pick a HR46, my wife would pick a Wauquiez 43 Pilot Saloon (but she is looking at Fountain Pajot's again Arrgh!!) Just need to win the lottery so we can afford a new 50' Oyster or Discovery!
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Old 04-10-2010, 14:18   #74
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Yes, alright, the match did have a keel stepped rig. My apologies, they were an interesting experiment into the IMS class under the Bavaria banner, they aren't to my knowledge mainstream cruising boats.
Indeed.

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I wouldn’t think the Match 38 is a typical or representative of Bavaria yachts ...
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Old 04-10-2010, 15:28   #75
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WRYANDDRY - Apart from the fact of even with a lot of money you still have to compromise what are you trying to tell us?
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