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Old 29-09-2010, 05:47   #16
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Personally I prefer the Beneteau's, I think they have a better finish and the later ones with big sky lights give a feeling of light and airy down below,
I agree. Production boats are better value for the money than the hand-made boats many of us sail, and Benes are the best of these. They are well engineered, reliable, and sail well. They are not as pretty, especially below, and not as robust, and don't have the hull form or tankage to be ideal blue water boats, but they are d*mned good for what most people use sailboats for -- short coastal trips.

I hate the plastic laminate soles of Benes, but otherwise the finishes are surprisingly good, especially the cabinets. I agree with Pete that they are a cut above the Bavs, which I think by general agreement is pretty much the bottom of the barrel. The rigs of Benes are not as heavy duty as you will find on more expensive boats, but you will find them set up and installed in intelligent ways. You will not find poorly engineered chain plates like what Pete described. Beneteau has a serious engineering department and takes advantage of their big volumes to do a lot of engineering.
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Old 29-09-2010, 06:28   #17
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ort coastal trips.

I hate the plastic laminate soles of Benes, but otherwise the finishes are surprisingly good, especially the cabinets. .
Different strokes! I love the laminate cabin floors. Easy to keep clean and extremely durable. If you live on a boat for six months in the sun and sand you'll come to love the laminate floors too. No worries about sand scratching it all up. Actually when I bought my Beneteau the laminate floor was an option. Much better than the "furniture finish" floors which show every footprint and gets scratched by just one little grain of sand.
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Old 29-09-2010, 08:34   #18
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They are not as pretty, especially below, and not as robust, and don't have the hull form or tankage to be ideal blue water boats,
JUst what is a "ideal blue water boat" and its associated full form, yours is only an opinion, in fact I would wager that more benes, jeanneaus and bavs have "blue watered" then any other make given the numbes produced.

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Old 29-09-2010, 08:44   #19
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Not liked?

I like'em!

Just take them for what they are - weekend sailors in safe distance from the marina. I think that the bigger models can make some ocean voyages too.

I have seen a Bavaria trying to circumnavigate. She shook her rig once and a half but the boat was under warranty so why bother.

I do not think Bavarias are distinguishably worse than Hunters, Benes, Jeanneaus, Hanses, Etaps ... and the likes.

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Old 29-09-2010, 13:39   #20
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Different strokes! I love the laminate cabin floors. Easy to keep clean and extremely durable. If you live on a boat for six months in the sun and sand you'll come to love the laminate floors too. No worries about sand scratching it all up. Actually when I bought my Beneteau the laminate floor was an option. Much better than the "furniture finish" floors which show every footprint and gets scratched by just one little grain of sand.
I had a look at a couple of Sweden Yachts 340's. Even though they were 21 years old, the teak interior of both was like new. I very quickly accepted that they were too good for me, too good to be used.

On the other hand I looked at a new Bavaria 32 (the new Farr design) and the floor was a very cheap looking laminate floor which did not even try to look like a real wood floor. It was just a big ugly blob with no patterns to distract you. On the other Bavaria's the laminated floor tried to look like something else.

Tomorrow I will be in Greece inspecting a few boats (ben/jen/bav) and maybe I will be a bit closer to something more interesting than internet sailing
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Old 29-09-2010, 13:48   #21
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This reminds me of a whole bunch of similar - my boat is better than your boat - discussions on another popular but nameless sailing forum. Far too many pompous expert wanna-bees there to get any substantive and objective info. It appears lots of folks think criticism makes them sound authoritative. The (other forum) disease seems to be spreading here through ethernet cables...
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Old 29-09-2010, 15:34   #22
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Far too many pompous expert wanna-bees there to get any substantive and objective info. ..
Thanks for that I reported what I found during a charter. We chartered so we could see what they are like for ourselves. Later we were invited to a sort of time share for boats weekend, were you can either purchase a boat or a fraction and have limited use on a managed boat. The company had chosen Beneteaus. Looking over the 323 the interior really was much nicer, but at a price, the Bene was 10,000 more than the Bav.

The great thing is these big European manufacturers turn out huge numbers of boats, Bavaria was something like 3000 a year before the recent recession. So find a poor example on the second hand market, no problem, plenty of others to choose from.

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Old 29-09-2010, 15:50   #23
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9 do not see the swan in the bavaria--i see the bayliner.....
dont chartr to checkout boats--sail on other peoples boats with owners and find out their complaints ... and feel how it sails..... good luck
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Old 29-09-2010, 16:02   #24
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9 do not see the swan in the bavaria--i see the bayliner.....
dont chartr to checkout boats--sail on other peoples boats with owners and find out their complaints ... and feel how it sails..... good luck
I'm away in Greece on Holiday and have taken no time off work since January. The charter is to get a general feel about boat of around that length.

Maybe I will face the reality that 39 is too big for me now and that I should revert back to what I used to know 25 years ago, 37 & 34 footer.
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Old 29-09-2010, 18:30   #25
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I owned a 39 2005 model

I had previously owned a 1999 34 and raced a 44.7 bendi

The difference between the 39 and 34 was chalk and cheese. I would have sailed the 34 through most things. The 39 I wouldn't just little things, ie the things that don't hit you in the face to the casual observer were cheap and undersized I'm my non expert opinion.

The other thing about the 39 was that she was a BIG boat, lots of boat out of the water and a cross wind thru you about badly you get used to it but single gander she was not.

We also lost steering once on the 39, I think it was a one off weakness but still a pain.

By contrast did a Hobart on the bendy. We beefed her up in a few spots but she did what we asked (it was an easy year)

I don't think you will find much difference at the end of the day. Both will need money spent to get them just right, how much depends on what you are doing.
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Old 29-09-2010, 19:11   #26
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I often get amused by this subject especially when I hear about those great old boats many of which were manufactured in Taiwan. Stainless steel tanks that were not really stainless as we no it etc etc. It seems to me that many will in time be sailing around in eighty year old boats spouting off as to there superior design, manufacture etc. Bav/Ben/Jenn are built for a purpose charter, that many constantly bag them because they do not suite another purpose is dumb. If there was no charter business they would be building in much smaller numbers and the boats would be twice as expensive maybe more or more likely they would not exist at all, think about it. Is the poster who said the chain plate support was an off cut piece of material suggesting that this is how they build boats in mass production, did it come from the factory like that or has there been some after market intervention? Charter boat companies are not renowned for there maintenance quality is that also the boat builders fault. MarkJ must have divine intervention to have made it around the world as he has nearly done in one of those terrible, modern production boats.
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Old 29-09-2010, 19:18   #27
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Bav/Ben/Jenn are built for a purpose charter, that many constantly bag them because they do not suite another purpose is dumb. If there was no charter business they would be building in much smaller numbers and the boats would be twice as expensive maybe more or more likely they would not exist at all
Not true at all. Beneteau makes far more boats for private owner use then charter. Even more so Bavaria and jeanneau

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Old 29-09-2010, 21:52   #28
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Not true at all. Beneteau makes far more boats for private owner use then charter. Even more so Bavaria and jeanneau

Dave
Right or wrong it would be the single largest market so they are not going to build something that is unsuiteable are they? I am not sure what your point is as I like the boats and if you are suggesting that they build boats to suite the private market well gee
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Old 30-09-2010, 01:15   #29
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As someone said before, you cannot get a truly objective view from a forum full of boat owners and we all know there are very few boats that are 100% perfect.

The Bavarias are definately not imitating a Swan - but their huge production volumes and resultant low prices have influenced all other boat builders and probably led to lower prices being set by many other manufacturers over the past decade.

And if these low prices have assisted multiple thousands of new boat owners to get out on the water and begin sailing, surely Bavaria deserve greater credit than they get?

They are not my choice of yacht, but they clearly fill thousands of other peoples needs. So I'm another who suggests we all get off this boat snobbery issue and hope Pete enjoys his charter - and whatever next boat he buys.

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Old 30-09-2010, 04:21   #30
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You should know by now that only a full keel canoe sterned ketch is safe at sea.

Seriously though, I own a multi so I am clearly silly, and that is reinforced by by liking Hunters (the US ones) and Bavarias. I particularly think the Hunter is a good design, charted a few and they seemd little better or worse than most others but did have a few nice design touches and were one of the few monos that had good sun protection.
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