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Old 13-10-2010, 07:55   #151
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Hmm, well, but I doubt you would like a cruiser that was designed with no regard at all for performance, no matter how safe it is. Am I right?
Same feeling here.

HR is not the cruising end of the spectrum anymore. Thanks gods we still have around a handful of out-and-out cruising boatyards. Or else you can have something built in a boatyard of your choice, but then we are talking real money.

In Europe you can have a boat by Koopmans or Zaal perhaps, and, personally, if suddenly hit by luck at Lotto, I think I would go for something like the new Boreal 44 - cruising, lifting, efficient, and in alloy, so that we could winter over in the Antarctic.

On the lighter vane: which boat would you rather be of the two shown below?

Cheers,
b.
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Old 13-10-2010, 08:14   #152
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On the lighter vane: which boat would you rather be of the two shown below?

Cheers,
b.
When you put it that way, perhaps I should have kept my Searay

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Old 13-10-2010, 09:57   #153
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Exactly - Bavarias are not well liked here because they lack in the marketing department...


;-)))
b.
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Old 13-10-2010, 12:24   #154
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HR is not the cruising end of the spectrum anymore. Thanks gods we still have around a handful of out-and-out cruising boatyards. Or else you can have something built in a boatyard of your choice, but then we are talking real money.

In Europe you can have a boat by Koopmans or Zaal perhaps, and, personally, if suddenly hit by luck at Lotto, I think I would go for something like the new Boreal 44 - cruising, lifting, efficient, and in alloy, so that we could winter over in the Antarctic.
Seriously , anyone with enough money to build a custom yacht can design the ultimate cruising machine. or perhaps what they define as an ultimate one. But thats not where this discussion is.

The simple fact is that teh vast majority of AWB's is exactly that average, just like most people are "average" they get the job done. Be it a HR or a Beneteau, they get the job done.

Dave
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Old 13-10-2010, 17:43   #155
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Seriously, anyone with enough money to build a custom yacht can design the ultimate cruising machine.
Can buy. Design only if they are a designer.

However, there is much more to this than meets the eye, because today's mass market boats are designed to meet potential buyers' whims and mortgages rather than to be good sailing boats. I doubt the mass buyer has much idea about sailing, neither can they afford a truly seagoing boat.

But when the mass buyer gets the boat they want we end up with boats so much alike and so far from being usable for open water sailing.

(Then again given the next to nil percentage of boats going offshore I cannot see anything wrong with such an arrangement).

;-)
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Old 15-10-2010, 01:05   #156
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Call us crazy if you like, but we are going offshore with what we have and not waiting another 10 years to buy the perfect cruising boat. We are experienced sailors and intend to sail mostly in favoured cruising area's at the right time of year. Also we will have an open schedule so we will stay put in harbour if need be if the weather is nasty. To quote Nascar you have to "race what you brung". We will have a whole bunch of gadgets and safety equipment (about 20k's worth). We can fix most things on the boat ourselves which gives us some more independence than the average cruising couple. The boat we own is a "AWB" by some folks description a Catalina 34mkII. Not a big boat, but big enough for two. Like any boat it is a compromise, but we want to go sooner than later. We are on the west coast of Canada and are planning to sail down the coast to Mexico then on to the Pacific then on to Australia. Taking about two years to do the loop safely.
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Old 15-10-2010, 04:08   #157
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Call us crazy if you like, but we are going offshore with what we have and not waiting another 10 years to buy the perfect cruising boat. . . . . The boat we own is a "AWB" by some folks description a Catalina 34mkII. Not a big boat, but big enough for two. Like any boat it is a compromise, but we want to go sooner than later.
You're not crazy at all. For your trip, I would prefer something like your boat to something like my old boat, which was a "classic blue water boat", heavy, with a long keel, which sailed like cr*p. Sure, my old boat would be much better in a storm, but what percentage of the time are you sailing in storms you can't avoid?

The perfect is the enemy of the good, as they say. It is really interesting for many of us to discuss for hours and weeks what makes the perfect "blue water boat". It is an interesting theoretical discussion. It doesn't mean, however, that something less than what is theoretically perfect won't do the job just fine.


By the way, the Catalina 34 has a very, very nice hull form:

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I don't like the rudder very much, but she's got a real blue water forefoot and a nice looking keel. You could do a whole lot worse than that for a long sea journey!

[the image came from http://www.constantlychanging.com/ca...missioning.jpg]
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Old 17-10-2010, 13:27   #158
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Wow
This was quite a thread. In context everyone seemed to be pretty much correct in their position.
I think missaussierules got it absolutely right though. Just go and adapt your sailing to what you have.
As for the newbie question of what to buy? I would point out that what you think you want and what you need are two different things. Experience will temper your belief system. I doubt many here got the right boat first time around or were even right about what kind of sailing they would end up doing.
In general longer and cheaper is not a good combination. Look for an older boat with a good reputation that is well fitted out. One of the biggest learning curves is how much it actually costs to get the boat cruise ready.
Cheers
Larry
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Old 23-10-2010, 21:32   #159
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Hi everyone,I'm new here.
I read this thread because I'm "dreaming" of selling up and floating around the Med. I've been looking online at various boats in the 12-14m range. I've seen the adverts of various production boats and was hoping to find specific problems of particular boats. What i've read is a lot of opinion but not much in specifics. For example, are Bavarias prone to mast failures, keels falling off? Less drastic but really annoying, how about deck fitting leaks? Engine accessabilty?
As one of you said, I could be just a dreamer who never actually sails. But I have logged up a few thousand miles in various areas including English channel and southern North Sea, eastern Med, Caribbean, so i know a little bit.

It would be nice to hear from people who've actually sailed this size and type of boat and what problems they had. An example, I chartered a "G***str**m 42" from "Crunch charters" in the BVI's. Apart from being the most useless charter company I've ever encountered, the basic boat sailed like a brick and even if I hadn't suffered rotten sails that ripped in a fart, 9 metres of anchor chain and jammed steering, the boat itself would still have been a dog.

So while the bespoke versus production debate is interesting and amusing, even I have ideas on what constitutes the perfect yacht, what I would like to know and I'm sure the person who began this thread also wants to know, is what specific problems people have had with Bavaria's, Bens, Jens and equivalent brands?
I'd rather hear from owners who are (God forbid) prepared to criticize their own boats!

Thanks in advance.
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Old 23-10-2010, 21:41   #160
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I've been meaning to post this as just one example of a Bavaria making it far afield. He is my dock neighbor and I don't think the boat was deposited here bey either miracle or by container freight.

Yes Bavaria too can sail far...

And if anyone tried to give it to me I certainly wouldn't say no...
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Old 24-10-2010, 03:45   #161
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I would accept her just to sell her on; did not start a family to put them on a boat produced by Ukraine labour with one German (east) leading them not speaking the same language or having sailed...........NO WAY
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Old 24-10-2010, 04:09   #162
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When you put it that way, perhaps I should have kept my Searay

Fully loaded

(BTW what bait did you use? )
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Old 24-10-2010, 04:18   #163
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To catch something like that you need a lure with lots of shiny and sparkly things
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Old 25-10-2010, 22:51   #164
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I would accept her just to sell her on; did not start a family to put them on a boat produced by Ukraine labour with one German (east) leading them not speaking the same language or having sailed...........NO WAY
Isn't Orion's built in Taiwan? Not to many english speakers there.

I like Bavaria Yachts.
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Old 26-10-2010, 19:42   #165
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I would accept her just to sell her on; did not start a family to put them on a boat produced by Ukraine labour with one German (east) leading them not speaking the same language or having sailed...........NO WAY

Ho, "a slow boat from China", please let us all know when you've manoevred it in the confines of Guiscardo harbour. I'm sure the language you'll be using is French!

Once I've bought my Bavaria, I'm looking forward to using a heavy "blue water" cruiser as a mooring weight!
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