Which boat would you consider? Hunter brand.

[jjones1349]

Port Credit Marina has a policy that all masts must be hauled while stored on the hard. It is also a very good idea as the mast vibrates in the strong winter winds and puts pressure on the hull by the cradle pads. This will eventually make the hull soft in those areas.
If the boat is left in the water there are no pressure points on the hull...we do have many live-aboards that use bubblers or ice eaters to keep ice clear of their hulls.
Other marinas do not insist on this policy and masts are left up.
Hauling the mast also provides an opportunity to inspect the mast before stepping.
My haul is late this year as I was buried in the yard and not launched till June this year.
Nov. 21 so the engine is now being heated...should be fun...is the latest haul yet as the yard changed the cut-off for crane hauls and launches to 27' in favor of hauling with the travel lift.
A Nonsuch is a very heavy boat at almost 6 tons and a beam of 11'10".
It is said to have about as much room below as some 36' boats as the bow widens quickly to provide flotation for the heavy mast.
Sailing is different from conventional rigs as the sail is treated as a jib instead of a main.

[sailorboy1]

Just get the boat you like the most!!!

The differences in having to un-step the mast between the choices is minor in the total scope of the boating experience. You are just going to be bitter if you get a boat based on the stepping that you don't like as mush as another boat!

[propellanttech]

We will start looking at boats pretty soon.

We are probably going to try a Vision, but may not find one within a price we feel is adequate.

I think most people here covered the issues I had with a keel stepped mast.

We will be keeping the mast at the marina where it will be stepped. It is just the safe and best bet. Hauling that mast on the boat is just a chance for disaster.

The boat will be in the water most of the time, with a scheduled haul out period to do bottom paint, and check various items for damage, wear, etc.

I'm going to start a thread about Genoa's now, if any of the followers want to comment about a large genoa on a Vision.

James L

[jjones1349]

Sounds like this boat has a very large main sail, fractional rig and probably doesn't have a genoa. I read some comments that remarked the main sheet is very long... similar to my boat that can make for scary gibing...not recommended as the sheet can decapitate or remove equipment easily. We prefer the chicken gybe by tacking the long way around in heavier winds. The boom is 27' long...sail is 540 sq.ft.
My previous crew bought a Hunter 34' Legend that is in Georgian Bay after the toxins from the sailing bug took affect.
Speaking of tacking concerns with a genoa...Nonsuch is simple; to tack, notify the crew and turn the wheel. The green crew ask what they can do...nothing except be aware that the boat is turning onto a new tack.
I have not seen any pictures of a genoa on the Vision.

[propellanttech]

I haven't seen any either, but I know they can be had.

That is one reason for the new thread.

Feasibility or just waste.

James L

[cfarrar]

We sailed a Nonsuch 30 for about 20 years. Wonderful boat, sails great, on any point of sail other than a beat it will smoke almost any boat it's size. And when cruising the pointing angles are usually no big deal. However, I never liked the unstayed mast offshore. It's not about strength in a strong breeze. What I didn't like was how in lumpy seas the mast flexes quite a bit, kind of like a whip. We never broke anything, but I still couldn't get used to it. Now I guess the Vision doesn't have a wishbone rig, so that's one difference, but on the other hand the Vision is fairly beamy / high volume, like a Nonsuch, so the hull is going to move around in a lumpy sea. And that's why my preference would be the stayed mast if I were truly planning to sail from Alabama to the Caribbean. But understand that I don't know anything about a Vision 36, so maybe I'm way off base, here.

[propellanttech]

Originally Posted by cfarrar

We sailed a Nonsuch 30 for about 20 years. Wonderful boat, sails great, on any point of sail other than a beat it will smoke almost any boat it's size. And when cruising the pointing angles are usually no big deal. However, I never liked the unstayed mast offshore. It's not about strength in a strong breeze. What I didn't like was how in lumpy seas the mast flexes quite a bit, kind of like a whip. We never broke anything, but I still couldn't get used to it. Now I guess the Vision doesn't have a wishbone rig, so that's one difference, but on the other hand the Vision is fairly beamy / high volume, like a Nonsuch, so the hull is going to move around in a lumpy sea. And that's why my preference would be the stayed mast if I were truly planning to sail from Alabama to the Caribbean. But understand that I don't know anything about a Vision 36, so maybe I'm way off base, here.

You do have some points, if the wind is light, and the seas heavy, then yes I can see the mast being a whip. If the winds match the seas, the mast should somewhat follow the wind to a degree.

So far with all my research I haven't found a Vision rig that was broke sailing. I have found a few broken to tornadoes or water spouts. There are many on the west coast which do quite a bit of coastal sailing, so I see that as good indication that the mast is reliable.

One major problem is the replacement. It will never happen, for there are no replacement masts to be had. Only a custom made carbon fiber for the tune of $40K is the only option.

So I will be careful to not sail in major stormy weather, if at all possible.

James L

[jjones1349]

My 4th season with the boat and pretty much only sail when there is wind. Sometimes when the wind dies it is pretty much time to get the rig down...or doesent everyone.
Donno bout sailing in big seas as Lake Ontario is supposed to be short chop. I do know about that. East winds do let the lake churn up a bit and does provide something that looks like swell.
I have sailed a few times with a double reefed sail...mostly westerlies that turn into northerlies/westerlies close to shore where I am sailing. Very gusty too. The prevailing winds that are most common. A bit of a PINA to sail but so it goes.
The mast flexing is a godsend as it does unload the gusts.
I found that if you pinch in a gust, let the rig get powered up and turn into the gust...stuff happens. I think someone tinkered with the knotmeter as I topped out at 8.4knots this fall...way too fast for this boat.
The hull is rock solid and the rig is very bendy...this is a fact and these boats should not be push to heal more than 15 degrees...otherwise they slow down. I respect that as they are soooo wide.
My previous boat was a Windsurfer so...a bit of a step up.
This is a good boat worthy of the upgrades that I have provided for her so far with and will continue.
Be advised...they usually sell for a bit more than usual for 30' boats.

[capta]

I would look at European boats. Many have mast tabernacles specifically designed to drop the mast easily and by those onboard without a crane. Many are also shoal draft for the canals, as well, which might help w/ the river, yet very "blue water" capable.
Good luck.

[SailingwithSoul]

How about this one?

1902 Dutch Barge - TjALK - NEELTJE Perfect For Charters - Sloop

[propellanttech]

Originally Posted by SailingwithSoul

How about this one?

1902 Dutch Barge - TjALK - NEELTJE Perfect For Charters - Sloop

You are joking I hope........

Now if I were in the UK, I think the canals would probably accommodate that vessel, but I'm not sure I would take on the voyages I have envisioned.

But I do appreciate the time to post it.

James L

[propellanttech]

Originally Posted by capta

I would look at European boats. Many have mast tabernacles specifically designed to drop the mast easily and by those onboard without a crane. Many are also shoal draft for the canals, as well, which might help w/ the river, yet very "blue water" capable.
Good luck.

I actually do not know much about the different European boats. I do not like considering something I know little about.

They may be better "blue water" capable, but could be an anchor waiting to happen. I like to stick with builders and brands I know a little about. Being able to see many of them being used is another nice benefit.

James L

[SailingwithSoul]

Originally Posted by propellanttech

You are joking I hope........

Now if I were in the UK, I think the canals would probably accommodate that vessel, but I'm not sure I would take on the voyages I have envisioned.

But I do appreciate the time to post it.

James L

Hi James,

Teasing a little.. Yes, but at the same time I was being completely serious about the recomendation. This is the only one of its kind I have found in the US. I too am looking forward to some long term blue water cruising and I would not discount on of these boats. In fact I would live to be able to live aboard and sail one in the future.

From your OP I gathered that you are looking for a comfortable cruising boat with the added ability to remove/lower the mast to fit under a bridge.

Well here you go.....

The listing I sent you was for a steel hulled vessel with a shallow, yet adjustable draft. The mast can me lowered and raised from the boat. Lastly the interior is beautiful. The only downside I see to this boat is that she is seriously overpriced when compared to similar ships overseas.

Taking into account that this one is steel, with a solid and heavy displacement, the draft can be increased via dropping the leeward board, the sail set up is simple, she even has a tiller.

They may not be fast boats, but whats more important in the real world. How well a boat can go to windward? or how well she can go aground? I prefer the later.... All the best in your search.

Cheers and Happy Sailing

[propellanttech]

Originally Posted by SailingwithSoul

Hi James,

Teasing a little.. Yes, but at the same time I was being completely serious about the recomendation. This is the only one of its kind I have found in the US. I too am looking forward to some long term blue water cruising and I would not discount on of these boats. In fact I would live to be able to live aboard and sail one in the future.

From your OP I gathered that you are looking for a comfortable cruising boat with the added ability to remove/lower the mast to fit under a bridge.

Well here you go.....

The listing I sent you was for a steel hulled vessel with a shallow, yet adjustable draft. The mast can me lowered and raised from the boat. Lastly the interior is beautiful. The only downside I see to this boat is that she is seriously overpriced when compared to similar ships overseas.

Taking into account that this one is steel, with a solid and heavy displacement, the draft can be increased via dropping the leeward board, the sail set up is simple, she even has a tiller.

They may not be fast boats, but whats more important in the real world. How well a boat can go to windward? or how well she can go aground? I prefer the later.... All the best in your search.

Cheers and Happy Sailing

The other issues I have with this boat, it has basically no keel, would probably not self right and was shipped to the US.

Nope, have to say I'll pass on this one. I'll let you purchase it, but when you do, invite me for a beer. I want to have a drink with you before you set sail.

James L

[SailingwithSoul]

Originally Posted by propellanttech

The other issues I have with this boat, it has basically no keel, would probably not self right and was shipped to the US.

Nope, have to say I'll pass on this one. I'll let you purchase it, but when you do, invite me for a beer. I want to have a drink with you before you set sail.

James L

Sounds like a plan