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Old 24-07-2010, 18:52   #31
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I have a slightly modified view in that a lot of the boats that are on market that have great fundamentals are usually loaded with crap you either don't need, are faulty, need to be totally replaced anyway, or not to your style and liking...and the owners and brokers jack up the price because of it. e.g. Electronics are out of date; new sails but not designed for cruising; rerigged but poor quality materials and too small; liferaft that hasnt been serviced in 10 years; new but lousy ground tackle; you name it. The ideal boat? Newly painted deck and hull; barrier coated butt; reasonable standing rigging; new or rebuilt engine; solid interior. Everything else excluded from the price. And dirt dirt cheap. YOU get the things done you normally would replace for sea to your own liking: rigging; sails, electronics etc
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Old 24-07-2010, 23:09   #32
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Dofthesea,
If you come across a boat and want some opinions about it please put it up on the forum for folks to comment. Some of the boats for sale around the islands I've either sailed on or buddy boated with so I could have some first hand experience for you. If not then I'll let you know that too.
kind regards,
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Old 25-07-2010, 05:34   #33
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Drew, sorry to hear about your friend, but thats the sort of boat he should be buying.

Interestingly ours came with a little engine logbook. It recorded every time the engine was started, the trips to the fuel pontoon and the servicing. 1610 hrs and 56 minutes over the previous 19 years. The attention to detail by the previous owners was the reason we bought her even though she was priced accordingly.

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Old 25-07-2010, 10:32   #34
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Yes there is a lot to say about judging a boat by the engine keep. 1610 is a remarkable small amount of hours over 19 years too
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Old 25-07-2010, 12:03   #35
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The hours are remarkable but even more so the recordkeeping! Recognizing the "little engine logbook" as a sign of meticulous ownership is very shrewd, if you ask me.
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Old 25-07-2010, 12:11   #36
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Drew13440 - shrewd to recognize? Hardly. Shrewd is if it is a forgery. Maybe screwed is the word. Take everything (including engine hours) only on a superficial value, and validate during a survey. But it gives you a sense on whether it's good to pursue.
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Old 25-07-2010, 12:27   #37
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If interior space is such a great concern, then my first choice would be an Island Packet. They are verry roomy,very well built and sail much better than you would expect from a "fat" boat. They are very expensive though which is why I didnt sugest them in the first place. If you find a used I.P.28 in your price range, I would jump on it like a frog on a june bug.
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Old 25-07-2010, 12:30   #38
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only thing i dont like about the Ip is the flimsy rudder.
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Old 25-07-2010, 12:41   #39
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The rudder and the wheel, on the IP28 (he can't go any bigger). Sailing a 28 with a wheel is silly, living aboard with a wheel on a 28 is masochism....
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Old 25-07-2010, 12:45   #40
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shrewd to recognize? Hardly. Shrewd is if it is a forgery.
Hard to forge a log over many years, I think. Patterns of use, penmenship, wear on the book itself....not easy. No "surveyor" is going to look at an engine and give you an hours of operation estimate anyway. They can check it out, and if it's good, it can die a natural death a week later without that information....
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Old 25-07-2010, 13:45   #41
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...No "surveyor" is going to look at an engine and give you an hours of operation estimate anyway. They can check it out, and if it's good, it can die a natural death a week later without that information....
Read again, I never said the hours were the deciding factor, just a clue.

A mechanical survey and load test will find the flaws, not a regular buyers survey.
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Old 25-07-2010, 14:12   #42
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You said:
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Take everything (including engine hours) only on a superficial value, and validate during a survey.
No surveyor can validate engine hours, but can ascertain general condition, if he's good. But let's be nice, our new friend has a great thing ahead of him and needs a little advice.
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Old 25-07-2010, 14:13   #43
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Quote:
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The hours are remarkable but even more so the recordkeeping! Recognizing the "little engine logbook" as a sign of meticulous ownership is very shrewd, if you ask me.
Okay, we are slightly off topic hear, but yes I thought quiet remarkable too. However given the condition of the yacht and a large folder of receipts including the original 20 or so invoices from the builder with all the extras, convinced me. We also found that by interigating the Stowe log she had sailed just under 3000 miles in 19 years. She was used regularly, just didn't go very far.

The surveyor didn't check the engine and wasn't expected to. That was my job during the days test sail. Does it look clean, no oil leaks or nasty noises, start and run properly. Oil and filters match the service record?

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Old 25-07-2010, 14:18   #44
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If it is a diesel, runs, doesn't smoke or use oil its good. I used to keep an engine log on my last boat because it didn't have an hour meter and I needed to know when to change oil and filters. Most oldtimers used to do it that way.
regards,
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Old 25-07-2010, 14:24   #45
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Absolutely, anyway we need to find a 28 foot yacht on an island in the middle of a large ocean, he won't have the luxury of choice those in Europe or the US might.

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