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Old 28-10-2015, 17:37   #31
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Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
I have yet to see a turn-key ocean boat. There may be some out there but in my experience the descriptions of the boats are a bunch of B.S. Actually, I am sure there are the occasional turn-key boats, but they are not cheap, and they go fast. I was told by a "reputable" broker how great this Passport 40 was. Ready to go to Polynesia. Just add fuel and water and provisions. Got on the boat and it had a bowl under every last one of the hatches since they ALL leaked. They were half full of water when I went on the boat. I am glad the broker left them on there at least. Buyer beware!

Especially problematic are those boats who "just finished a circumnavigation and ready to go again". Yeah right - the owner wants to repair all the stuff he broke going around the world right before he/she sells it. Hate to sound so negative but this seems to be the state of boat selling - probably since the first boats.

+1!

I must admit I have seen at lest one 'turn key'. She sold last month for around half a mio.

Your comment on 'just finished a circumnavigation and ready to go again' very correct. Boats come back either beaten up or at least used hard. It is a major expense in cash and time to get them back in shape after any extended voyage. The same applies to circumnavigators ;-)

Cheers,
b.
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Old 28-10-2015, 19:03   #32
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Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

That is why I put 130,000 into her and Yes she turn key. Have u ever heard of a morgan out island survey out at 56,000 in the 1970s .
No maybe 15 or 20 but mine is all brand new from electronics to engine to sails to tanks so yes she is turnkey. Refit has taken me sence 2006 to do because of my attention to detail. But I do agree with u most say turn key but are not.

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Old 29-10-2015, 09:37   #33
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Thumbs up Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
If you cannot estimate the cost of repairs then you cannot estimate how much it is worth.

Find a sister ship that does not require repairs.

Or else educate yourself, estimate the repairs then decide on your price offer.

Or else hire others to do the homework and the jobs - make sure you add their charges to the pile of cash flow (negative).

You can only make a sound decision if you know how much the repairs are going to cost.

b.

Hear hear!

Search the average asking price of the boat for this year, make, model and end condition that you are interested in, then deduct 15% to arrive somewhere close to the fair market value.

Determine what it will take to put the boat into the same end condition. (If you are not equipped to estimate this accurately, you are not equipped to entertain the undertaking, buy the boat in the end condition you want.)

If the financial savings of the outcome is worth your effort, go for it, if not don't.

I am currently restoring a 1975 Douglas 32 Mk II. When done, I will have more than twice (financially) into it ($50K) what I could sell it for. The time I will have into it (at my regular rate), will push my investment over $75K.

The trouble is, any boat I look at in the $75K range, will most definitely be newer (maybe 15 years old instead of 40) but not better. All of the stuff will be 15 years old, whereas mine will be new (and in many cases better).

I don't recommend people do what I'm doing. It is just the best solution I can find for me. (Yes, we know that we can't sell the boat for at least 7 years, or we'll not benefit from the value of our investment, but if we do sell 7 years from now, some lucky buyer will get a great boat, not the cheapest of its kind, but certainly the best value.)

All this said, I would sure like a walk-through transom, which in my mind is one of the greatest cruising boat inventions of the 20th century, (after GPS and autohelm), and the only thing that really challenges my decision to proceed with the Douglas.

Ramblin Rod
www.sheenmarine.com
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Old 29-10-2015, 11:00   #34
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Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Ramblin rod
Thanks for saying what I couldn't put into words
That's exactly what I was trying to say thank you

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Old 29-10-2015, 18:40   #35
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Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Well, after spending an hour and a half crawling over it, I can answer my own question. It has many answers. When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

"When the broker tells you straight up that the last guy offered $10k, after a $1700 survey, and still walked away from the deal."

Other answers include:
"When you open the boat after a few weeks and the odor of diesel and moisture hits you in the face."
"When you find a gigantic wasps nest in the quarter-berth lazarette cupboard, with no obvious external access for them to have gotten in there.
"When the full 2" cabin sole around the engine compartment is wet and soft, and the bilge clearly had a foot of oily water recently pumped out."

Or, well, the following pictures really (sorry about quality, borrowing a friends broken phone while mine is in for repair):


Teak is visibly heaving in several places and fully saturated with water.




The boom has had a 6" band welded onto it, halfway down its length. Not a huge concern, since welds are stronger than the surrounding material, the concern is what caused such a repair to be required in the first place and what invisible issues it may have caused elsewhere.


MMmmmm, Dat Rusty Base, so structurally sound that I'd totally bet my life on it!


Cabin roof, the paint has cracked so deeply that the fiberglass is clearly visible in spots.

Not pictured: The massive grooves rubbed into the rudder by the guy wires for the poorly-installed tender hoist (which they ditched a monitor windvane to install!), the conspicuously missing chunk of paint at the waterline on the bow, etc etc etc.

It's a solid project boat, the airex core at least means the deck isn't immediately going to kill you. As I would like to sail seriously offshore and in the high north before I am 30, rather than spend 10 years cutting chunks out to make it bluewater safe again, this is not the boat for me.

Thanks again for the advice guys!
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Old 29-10-2015, 19:16   #36
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Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Raincoast, Good Call
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Old 30-10-2015, 09:43   #37
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Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

There are so many boats in a buyers market like we haven't seen for years, you'll find the right one at the right price for you. Don't give up on Pearsons we had a 365 that still makes me smile and sigh remembering how good a boat it was. See you out there!
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