Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-10-2015, 10:28   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
seasick's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Boat: Brewer designed Pacific 43 in fiberglass. Center cockpit set up for long-distance single handing.
Posts: 428
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

I second Lesterbutch. Let the current owner make the decision for you. Offer him $14,000. This boat will consume another $14,000 with little to show for it.

My daughter and I just got started on a very similar project and now believe they should have given us the boat and a thank you for hauling it out of the yard.
__________________

__________________
seasick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 10:30   #17
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

If you cannot estimate the cost of repairs then you cannot estimate how much it is worth.

Find a sister ship that does not require repairs.

Or else educate yourself, estimate the repairs then decide on your price offer.

Or else hire others to do the homework and the jobs - make sure you add their charges to the pile of cash flow (negative).

You can only make a sound decision if you know how much the repairs are going to cost.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 10:39   #18
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,053
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raincoast View Post
Hey all!

So I'm looking at a respectable Noon Ocean 34 near me, at a price which is low enough that it triggers alarm bells in my head: $29k Canadian. However it has been emphasized that the owner (having a a new yacht) "rather than repair this yacht, would rather compensate with a price reduction". Seems concerning, eh?

The broker is fairly up front about the issues:

- "Voids beneath the teak deck", but also no survey indication of water penetration or delamination of the deck core, nor that the teak is rotting in places from the bottomside up. Frankly, I have no idea what to make of such a claim? If there's voids being sounded, clearly something is going wrong up there? The deck, and upper hull, are both cored with Airex which I have read extremely conflicting reports about at this vintage.

- Cutlass bearing has "vanished" off the driveshaft and needs replacing before the shaft tube is warped / damaged, if it is not already. Propeller blades are also loose and require servicing / replacement.

- Bowsprit "requires refurbishing" (listed as a structural deficiency!)
- Pitting on cockpit coamings & painted topsides.
- Fridge is ancient and only intermittently working, replacement advised.
- Radar & SSB inoperable, VHF only.

I'm familiar with the history of the boat in question, that it survived a 14 year circumnavigation by Gillian West and the new owners have only had it a handful of years since she sold it.

It's a very nice boat, I feel like it would make an excellent liveaboard and I would enjoy puttering around the Salish Sea in it immensely. However, even if the owner is willing to come down significantly on the price, I get the nagging feeling that the cost of unforeseen repairs to ensure bluewater seaworthiness again may in fact exceed the listed price as is?

I need some strong words of advice.
Run don't walk!
__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 10:40   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,735
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

I suspect that you will easily have to put in as least as much in repairs as the price of the boat and you still will have significant things to do. Having said that, there are occasionally great deals out there waiting for someone who knows what they are doing to take on as project boats.

Unless you have done a project boat in the past, I think you will rue the day you bought this boat. It sounds like some very fundamental regular maintenance was deferred. What that means is that there is lots more to find later.

But if you get it, you will learn a lot about fixing sailboats. And you will learn about how much it costs to fix sailboats.
__________________
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 10:58   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

I agree that what you have noted from the broker is the tip of the iceberg. Up to you how much work you want to do. Agree on a good price and survey it if you must have it. If you get a lowball price, you can reassure the seller that you will either walk or buy from the survey if that helps.... and not nickel and dime him.
But before you do so, spend some time on the boat, looking at everything. sail condition etc. make a list , add it up in rough numbers... it's amazing how fast things add up. Have you heard the engine run?
One way to tell how soaked the deck is from water (assuming it's cored) is to drill a small hole in non obvious places (like a hanging locker under deck). Squeeze the core material that is in the drill bit, if wet, water will come out when you squeeze it.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 12:01   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,165
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

@Redhead: The name "Raincoast" arose among meteorologists. Ask any weather-forecaster and he will tell that around Vancouver - and points north - weather-forecasting is simplicity itself: If you can see the mountains, it's gonna rain. If you can't it's raining!

@Raincoast: Yes, Run away as fast as you can! Vancouver has THOUSANDS of good boats for sale at very reasonable prices. Thousands upon thousands of boats sit alongside and don't move but once in three years cos boat ownership, and sailboat cruising particularly, requires a certain perverseness not given to many. Once you buy in, you are stuck, even if it turns out that cruising is not for you, cos the market is glutted with boats.

In my marina there is a luvverly 36 footer. Belonged to a friend of mine who decided he had better uses for his money. Sold the boat to a "New Canadian" who "knew everything". This fellow and I departed the marina on the same day last spring, and when I came back in three weeks later, the boat was on the hard. With a ding in the keel and a bent rudder stock. Those damn pinnacles pop up where you least expect them! The boat has been sitting on the hard all summer.

I suspect that it's a case of "no reasonable offer refused". Say five grand.

Drop me a PM and I can point you in the right direction so you can at least look at 'er.

TrentePieds
__________________
TrentePieds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 13:21   #22
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 2,147
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Interesting post.

Keep in mind...you actually like the boat. What will the owner do if you don't buy it? No one else would even consider it with the known issues.

Hence, this boat should be $100. Yes, just enough to make it legal and binding. I think Josh Slocum only paid $1 for his yacht, but that was a long time ago. His boat also needed some work if I recall.

Also, since its a bargain, it will owe you nothing. So feel free to rip up the decks with a sawsall, and start slapping it full of epoxy and glass. If you aren't too concerned with cosmetics, strong seaworthy repairs can be done with less cost and effort.

And finally, if the owner disagrees with the assessment that his boat has devalued to zero...just point him towards this forum. Or he can wait 5 years and then give it away.

BTW, I've done this myself. And I have to say...its great fun!
__________________
hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 18:00   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 324
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Asking the question tells me it is way to expensive for you or anyone for that matter !
I'm in NY and found a 45 pearson for $12k-passed on it and I grew up on sailboats and yards/repair.Maybe if I was in my early 20s.
I have a life to live now.Lol

All the Best
__________________
Arthur Garfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 19:26   #24
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 2,147
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Garfield View Post
I'm in NY and found a 45 pearson for $12k-passed on it
Pearson 45 for $12k....how do I find this boat? I like Pearsons and currently have no boat.
__________________
hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 21:03   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

I bought my dream boat with a bad deck. 12 grand to get it redone, and I think I got out cheap! Everything on my boat has been evenually replaced, except the fiberglass. At least I know how to repair the darn thing.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 21:53   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 587
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

As usual, not enough information to give the OP a logical answer. Not so much about the boat but the guy who wants to buy a boat. Are you going to do the work yourself? Or are you going to hire the project out? If you want to and can do the work yourself, then anything is possible. Going to pay to have it done, then it gets very iffy.
__________________
captlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-10-2015, 23:41   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: portland oregon
Boat: 1975 morgan outisland 33'
Posts: 99
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

If you want a turn key ocean going sailboat that needs nothing done to it check this out



http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153287
33 Morgan out island 1975
__________________
kennyarmes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2015, 11:27   #28
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,735
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

I have yet to see a turn-key ocean boat. There may be some out there but in my experience the descriptions of the boats are a bunch of B.S. Actually, I am sure there are the occasional turn-key boats, but they are not cheap, and they go fast. I was told by a "reputable" broker how great this Passport 40 was. Ready to go to Polynesia. Just add fuel and water and provisions. Got on the boat and it had a bowl under every last one of the hatches since they ALL leaked. They were half full of water when I went on the boat. I am glad the broker left them on there at least. Buyer beware!

Especially problematic are those boats who "just finished a circumnavigation and ready to go again". Yeah right - the owner wants to repair all the stuff he broke going around the world right before he/she sells it. Hate to sound so negative but this seems to be the state of boat selling - probably since the first boats.
__________________
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2015, 13:38   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Yep! The only time any boat is "turn key" is for a day or two after you fixed the most recent problem!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2015, 14:56   #30
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,053
Re: When is the price "too good" for a bluewater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Yep! The only time any boat is "turn key" is for a day or two after you fixed the most recent problem!
The brokers in some cases sound like used car salesmen. Terminology isn't even correct.
__________________

__________________
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
price, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has Cruising Become Too Artificial, Too Expensive, Too Regulated ? Piney Our Community 66 26-07-2017 20:01
Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged Cormorant Cruising News & Events 815 22-01-2017 21:15
Too much of a good thing! Too many buyers for one boat. appick Monohull Sailboats 28 16-01-2015 15:51
"recent price reduction""owner anxious""bring all offers" sailorboy1 Dollars & Cents 10 22-01-2009 12:25



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.