wheel vs. tiller steering

[GordMay]

A little frequency drift, but oh well, the Administrator isn't looking ...

I had a rail (pushpit) mounted 30" VHF antenna cabled back to my main radio location, coupled to another cable back to the cockpit (usually for my handheald).
Lose mast (& prime antenna), uncouple cockpit cable, and connect rail antenna to main radio (or not).
Also had an “emergency” stubby antenna, that’s supposed to connect directly to the radio - didn’t throw it away, but couldn’t see much utility in it.

Peter O. Is absolutely right about VHF range - it’s entirely antenna height dependant.
D = 1.22 x Root ‘Hft' -or- D = 2.21 x Root ‘Hm’
where: ‘D’ is distance, ‘Hft’ is antenna height in feet, and ‘Hm’ is in meters
To calculate radio range, we add the two (D1 transmit & D2 receive) antennae ranges together, thus:
Range = D1 + D2
See ‘VHF RADIO RANGE’, under Instruments & Communications.

Rigging an emergency HF antenna will require a little more ingenuity (I never had the luxury of contemplating that problem )

Nice thing about HF, is it can be very forgiving. One year on Field Day a few of us got together and wanted to work 160meters. The contest guys were hammering away on all the good bands, and 10 was dead, so we dragged out some wire, paced off 80 meters, and cut the wire in half, soldered on the coax, and worked 7 states with the dipole on the ground. Bottom line is, if you need to, you can improvise. Something sailors are especially good at.
I have heard of all sorts of emergency rudder designs, from cabinet doors on spinaker poles, to sweeps through an oarlock. The back up for most hydraulic systems is a tiller. The back up for most wheel systems is a tiller, and all emergency rudder systems commercialy sold use a tiller. Might not mean anything, but just like keeping a hand crank for your engine, when the complex system fails, the simple system will work.

[Rick]

On the Vhf and Hf emergency antenna topic:
Roverhi said: ..."HF radios are really finicky about tuning the antenna to the radio and proper ground planes. Without the proper match you simply don't get out. I understand Vhf radios aren't so finicky..." Actually both types are equally "finicky" in that both HF as well as VHF amplifiers have built-in SWR detectors which automatically cut down on transmit power as the antenna/transmission line combination increases SWR. Both will operate into an open or a short, usually without damage due to the automatic protection.

Obviously an emergency VHF antenna is easier to stow than is an HF one. There are solutions to both. The reason that it seems that HF is more finicky is because of the sheer dimensions required in order to achieve a reasonable amount of effective radiated power, even with 150 Watts available at the transmitter (which is NOT available without a good antenna match). Even using a 16 MHz band on commercial SSB one "needs" to have dimensions approaching 20 feet in order to "get out" a reasonable amount of effective radiated power...where do you get 20 feet on a 30 foot boat without a mast? Of course using the lower bands the problem is even more difficult.

[delmarrey]

Here is the latest addition to the hydraulic steering installation.

Maybe I should start a new thread showing the progress of the installation, as I go. That's if anyone is interested?


.................................................. ............_/)

[Alan Wheeler]

Wooo hooo, that is impressive.
I love what you have done with the Pilot house Delmarrey , but you could do with a window or two in front. Or are you of the opinion, if ya can't see it, it doesn't exist

[delmarrey]

Well, on the wall, the picture of the Expo in downtown Vancouver, BC is the best I can do for now. Dreams are what life is made of. So, until I get this thing installed I'll just have to steer into the dream..................._/)

[capt lar]

If there is a Mrs Delmarrey, she must be a very understanding woman.

capt. lar

[delmarrey]

It's Ok with her! She says she can get accustom to it before she has to use it. She never could adapt to the tiller, under stress. It was stronger then she was. The auto pilot was the Second Mate when the going got rough.

In the mean time I still need to gather other parts, pull the rudder, move the main traveler and move the hydraulics (for back stay and vang) back to where the engine gauges are now.

While I have the rudder out I might as well replace the prop shaft and cuttless bearing. They're getting a bit worn.............._/)

[rtbates]

That's an easy one.

Steering wheels are for cars

Tillers are for sailboats.

Randy Cape Dory 25D "Seraph"

[roverhi]

If you've been following this thread, you know that I love wheels. Well, I just made a delivery of a Pearson 35 from Santa Cruz to San Francisco. It was fresh out of the yard where it had the rudder worked on among other things. If you don't know it, almost all the Pearson 35's were built with wheels. Thought it would give me a chance to reevaluate my dislike of the wheel. The boat also had a monitor self steering vane so it would give me a chance to see how they work with a wheel.

The sail turned out to be something of a fluke. Forecasts were for southerly winds up to 25 mph with rain. Spent a few days before the sail on the boat and a few days after, rain, rain, rain. Left the Marina at 0400 with light winds out of the predicted direction, cold drizzle and sloppy confused seas. Powering was very uncomfortable and my crew were soon hanging their heads over the side and chumming the fish. As the day broke the winds began to build till we were finally able to turn off the engine and sail. Around 9am, the mist burned off, the sun came out and we had a wonderful sail making about 4 knots all the way to SF. Began to rain again just after we tied the boat up in the slip.

Experimented with the Monitor most of the way. Found that friction in the steering system made the self steering marginal until boat speed went over four knots. Just not enough muscle in the servo rudder able to overcome the force to turn the wheel. Now I understand why so many people with wheels run autopilots. The damn wheel makes the cruising sailors best friend less than sterling.

As we're surfing into the golden gate in 4-6 foot swells, suddenly the boat will barely turn to port. Starboard no problem but only a few degrees to port. I haul out all the stuff from the lazarette and crawl in so I can see the steering gear. The key has fallen out of the quadrant and the quadrant has rotated on the shaft so have virtually no rudder deflection to port. Now I'm really in love with the damned wheel!!!!! Unload the other cockpit locker so I can get down to the emergency tiller. Pop the emergency tiller cover and slap it on figuring all is now fine as I've finally can steer with a tiller. Fuggedit. The quadrant is still clamped so tightly on the steering post that I can't overcome it with the emergency tiller. Ended up having to turn the wheel as I pushed on the emergency tiller.

Fortuately the wind died so we ended up powering all the way to Alameda. By cranking the wheel all the way to port and leaning on the emergency tiller picked up a few more degrees of port rudder but not nearly enough. Had to make a couple of tight port turns in the marina to get to the slip. Had a bit of practice backing and filling with the engine or doing a 270 to starboard to get the boat into the bedded down.

Moral of this story: WHEELS SUCK!!! If a yard works on the rudder/steering system, crawl in the bilge and watch how their work is holding up while someone else takes the boat out and puts it through its paces. Wheels have too much friction to allow even a powerful pendulum/servo vane like the Monitor work like it would with a tiller in about 1/2 the conditions.

Aloha
Peter O.

[delmarrey]

I think I would have blamed all the problems you had on the moron that installed the key, not the wheel

My rudder post has a quadrant that clamps tightly on the post and a bolt that goes thru the post as well as the quadrant.

I really don't like to rely on others handy work. Installing this hyd. steering system has been quite the experiance but the Second Mate is going to love it..............._/)

[little boat]

simple. tiller and windvane.

[keelbolts]

Wheels are an unnecessary complexity. At best, you have a whole host of mechanical stuff that has no feel and is just waiting to turn on you. At worst, you have a hydraulic system that needs to be serviced regularly, is a constant drain on your batteries, and has no feel. I've cruised a 38 ton 1915 gaff ketch with a tiller. I rigged a block and tackle that I ran from the weather shrouds to the tiller. There is a correct name for that piece of gear, but we just called it our power steering.

[delmarrey]

I've been asked by PM about the fittings I used in my system, so I'll shall reply here.

They are either Hi-pressure brass or stainless steel along with type K copper tubing (refrigeration grade). They were also 37º flared ends. I could have use steel fitting but I plan to take this to the S. Pacific where the humidity 80% on the average. I wanted to avoid the rust factor. I've seen plenty of boats with hyd. systems where the steel fittings were so rusty I was afraid to move them.

It took me a while to round up all non-ferrous fittings. It took 3 different sources and they were a bit spendy! But, it'll be worth it in the long run. I even had to re-machine a pair for a size smaller O-ring (from a #8 to a 6).

Also, I "T"ed in a pair of SS hyd. gauges, from another source, so I could track the feed-back on the rudder. Which turned out to be a better deal then I thought. I can now adjust my sails to get the least amount of feed-back, since I can't feel it with the wheel lock system.

For the flex line I used regular 3200psi hyd hose with 37º steel fittings. They are fairly cheap and can be bought most anywhere so I just went with the steel fittings.

As for plastic tubing. I've seen too many leaks with the stuff. And if you brake it apart then it just doesn't seem to re-seal as good as it use to.

Hope this helps............................_/)

[dana-tenacity]

Did anyone mention that a tiller is cheaper? more reliable? easier to maintain/repair? more fun to sail with?