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Old 14-06-2015, 17:14   #121
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

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Yes, the core of my cockpit sole was also totally rotten, thanks wheel!
Had nothing to do with the wheel. Had everything to do with the person who installed it and the person who let the situation get out of hand through lack of maintenance.
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Old 14-06-2015, 17:15   #122
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Re: tiller all the way.

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
^^^ what he said, ten years ago^^^

Physics fanboys can explain what friction does to a feedback system.

They can also tell you the simplest test to compare the robustness of two different components or assemblies is to try to use one as a tool to render the other inoperable.

My money is on the lever. Anybody with a wheel steering system want to try and take me?
And you accused me of being emotional about the subject...

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Old 14-06-2015, 17:49   #123
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

I will bet most airline pilots are pissed they enclosed the cockpit too.

Bring me down...and I repeat down to any level...and I will agree to leave.

The point has been made and plenty of smart boaters and designers see the difference in the two and yet there are examples, good and bad of both, and the world still turns, wheels and tillers both cross oceans with regular problem free frequency.

Use what you like, just don't think your choice is superior in all ways.
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Old 14-06-2015, 17:58   #124
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

So, no consensus after a ten year discussion? Kind of answers the question, doesn't it.



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Old 14-06-2015, 18:02   #125
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

well...we havent talked about anchors and guns and cathamerangs
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Old 14-06-2015, 18:15   #126
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I will bet most airline pilots are pissed they enclosed the cockpit too.

Bring me down...and I repeat down to any level...and I will agree to leave.

The point has been made and plenty of smart boaters and designers see the difference in the two and yet there are examples, good and bad of both, and the world still turns, wheels and tillers both cross oceans with regular problem free frequency.

Use what you like, just don't think your choice is superior in all ways.


There are many things in boating that really are dependent upon "personal choice/taste." Starting with your choice of boat.
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Old 14-06-2015, 18:29   #127
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Had nothing to do with the wheel. Had everything to do with the person who installed it and the person who let the situation get out of hand through lack of maintenance.
Well, no wheel, no pedestal. No pedestal, no three inch diameter hole through sole surrounded by three more half-inch diameter holes.

Was bed with 5200 to boot which I think did more to hold the pedestal in place than the three half-inch aluminum bolts that were used for the installation. After the fact pretty sure coulda kicked the thing and broke the bolts and tore up the gelcoat while unshipping.

Maybe they got over that one and switched to stainless. Don't know, don't care. Not my problem. I hope they did though, because those aluminum bolts were halved by the inevitable water intrusion that resulted from the pedestal being a four foot lever arm with barely a six inch base.

You know, that one prominent feature in the cockpit everybody reaches for grabs onto all the time when the boat is getting tossed about. Go figure.

Wannabes with fifteen, twenty, or thirty year old boats might be well served to not just take a surveyors word for it before they head out there, cuz you know out there is where things happen.

Show of hands for those who can say they have removed and inspected those bolts on their pedestals ever.
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Old 14-06-2015, 19:44   #128
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Show of hands for those who can say they have removed and inspected those bolts on their pedestals ever.
I have!

Oh... that's right... I don't own a boat yet.

Well, I'm sure I would have if I had one.
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Old 14-06-2015, 21:12   #129
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

Nope, but I have had to do repairs on my tiller (when I had a boat) and rudder head.
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Old 14-06-2015, 22:10   #130
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

Legitimate, non-rhetorical question: What is the typical way that a cruising boat's tiller is secured so that the helms-person may let go?

I have seen jam cleats and other devices permanently attached to tillers and I suppose many folks use a simple lashing. Does anyone use some sort of adjustable friction device? or clutch?

In Panope's previous incarnation 1982-2000, she had worm gear steering. Unless a big following sea necessitated constant corrections, we rarely maintained a continuous grasp of the helm. Instead, the helm was occasionally nudged (with a toe) one way or the other. It sure was nice to have free hands for eating or whatever. We always wondered how a tiller steered boat could be set up to allow this kind of freedom.

Panope now has a chain/sprocket/cable/quadrant arrangement of my own design that as very little friction. I was planning on building an adjustable friction device but I now have the sailing rig so well balanced that it is not needed. Unless the boat is waaaay over powered (rail buried), the helm does not creep.

I can sure see (now) where the pro-tiller crowd is coming from about how nice it is to have "feedback". Not that my current system would have as much feel as a tiller, but it is light years ahead of the old worm-gear system.

For me, the ability to let go of the helm instantaneously (and leave) is a tremendously valuable feature.

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Old 14-06-2015, 22:19   #131
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

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Originally Posted by AuroraGH View Post
At the risk of reviving an old and long thread - I have seen boats with wheels that carry emergency tillers. I have never seen a boat with a tiller that had an emergency wheel.

As a Cape George 36 driver with a simple barn door rudder and tiller, count me firmly in the tiller camp.
Then why did you revive it?

Of course this thread died 3 times already so why not help it along for a couple more cylces?
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Old 15-06-2015, 06:17   #132
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

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Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Legitimate, non-rhetorical question: What is the typical way that a cruising boat's tiller is secured so that the helms-person may let go?

I have seen jam cleats and other devices permanently attached to tillers and I suppose many folks use a simple lashing. Does anyone use some sort of adjustable friction device? or clutch?

In Panope's previous incarnation 1982-2000, she had worm gear steering. Unless a big following sea necessitated constant corrections, we rarely maintained a continuous grasp of the helm. Instead, the helm was occasionally nudged (with a toe) one way or the other. It sure was nice to have free hands for eating or whatever. We always wondered how a tiller steered boat could be set up to allow this kind of freedom.

Steve
Most folk with tillers have a simple tiller autopilot to lock down the tiller. My old Navico made a chirping sound like a bird so I used to just turn it off once on my desired heading with the tiller still attached and locked in position.

I would then read sitting in the cockpit leaning against the cabin with the main sheet across my lap (but still cleated) . If I needed to adjust the heading, I'd just ease or tighten the main just a bit. No toes involved!
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Old 15-06-2015, 06:45   #133
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

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Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Legitimate, non-rhetorical question: What is the typical way that a cruising boat's tiller is secured so that the helms-person may let go?
Our boat has a method I've never seen anywhere else (although I'm sure it can't be unique). It involves the use of heavy bronze belaying pins with a range of placement holes in a track along the stern of the cockpit. This allows us to lock the tiller in a wide range of locations.

Using this system our boat, with it's full keel (15 ton, 37-foot), will maintain a course for a long time if we're properly balanced. Of course she'll steer herself when close-hauled.

The pic shows the two belaying pins that we move around as need be.
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Old 15-06-2015, 07:37   #134
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

AKA a tiller comb.
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Old 15-06-2015, 07:43   #135
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Re: wheel vs. tiller steering

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
AKA a tiller comb.
Cool. Thanks . I've seen lots of tiller-tamer approaches, with clutches and lines to tie off the tiller, but I'd never seen another one like ours ... until now.
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