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Old 07-05-2007, 06:19   #61
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Originally Posted by capt lar
well, with a 31 footer with a wheel, i guess i'm off to the boat owner's hall of shame. jeff - where can i get one of those captain's caps - i think i'll get the greek one -
capt (retired) lar
I'm even worse...27 feet with a wheel. Where can I put my face?


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Old 07-05-2007, 06:28   #62
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I never had the chance to use a wheel untill a while ago on a steel Roberts. Prior to that it has always been tillers. I hated wheel. It was much harder to keep the boat straight in swell and had little feedback.
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:45   #63
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Steering wheels belong in cars.


... and boats that cannot be balanced to sail properly.
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:38   #64
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more fun to sail with?
NOT! Ask the wife!...................._/)
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:52   #65
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I agree with Peter. On my 30 footer I feel that the wheel does nothing but introduce unnecesary complexity. When the wind picks up over 30 knots and the seas start to build I have to hand steer and with the wheel I am stuck out in the weather while I gaze longingly at the shelter under the dodger. Wheel pilots are more expensive and harder to mount than tiller pilots. I miss being able to steer with my knees while handling the sheets or motoring. It takes up a lot of room in the cockpit.

I recall once short tacking up Santa Cruz Island on a friend's 27 footer that had a wheel. Just as we tacked away from the island the cables jumped the sheaves and we had no steering. We mounted the emergency tiller and I spent the next hour upside down in the lazarette putting the steering back together.

They may be a nessecary evil on a larger boat but I just don't see the point in 30' and under.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:06   #66
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The primary advantage of a wheel on a boat under 30 feet is that it helps to sell it to first time yacht buyers.
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Old 31-05-2007, 06:28   #67
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We have a Hynautic steering system on our Morgan 35. We are removing it to replace it with a basic Edson cable steering system. The hydralic system has no feel and takes to long to respond to imput.
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Old 31-05-2007, 11:45   #68
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Connemara - You're on your own - I moved up to 36 feet.
Now I can't afford the Greek sailor's cap.
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Old 31-05-2007, 13:17   #69
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The hydralic system has no feel and takes to long to respond to imput.
Edboat, then the problem is the wrong size hydraulic system. Going to cable is not going to change how it "feels". There is a lot of friction in cable that ends up dampning much of the feel.
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Steering wheels belong in cars.


... and boats that cannot be balanced to sail properly.
Hmmmm, I would like to know how your going to get a tiller on my boat :-)
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Old 31-05-2007, 17:20   #70
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Originally Posted by edboat
We have a Hynautic steering system on our Morgan 35. We are removing it to replace it with a basic Edson cable steering system. The hydralic system has no feel and takes to long to respond to imput.
That's odd. One of the pluses of hydraulics over mechanical is the lack of freeplay. Maybe you have air in the system?
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Old 31-05-2007, 19:27   #71
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That's odd. One of the pluses of hydraulics over mechanical is the lack of freeplay. Maybe you have air in the system?
Ditto!
One reason I put in hyd. steering, so I would not have to fight the wheel. I have a couple gauges T-ed into the lines and I can see how much feed back I get.

I can even adjust my sails until I get the least amount of feed back (pressure), balancing out the boat. Once it's adjust I can usually walk away from the helm for a while and enjoy the ride..............._/)
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Old 01-06-2007, 03:53   #72
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To all, The ram is the correct size and there is no air in the system. My dislike for the Hynautic system is as stated before no feel or feedback. I have used hydralic systems on a lot of boats big and small. On most of those boats it was the right system to use and made life easy. On our current boat it is a pain and drives me crazy(short trip). Therefore it is being replaced by cable.
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Old 01-06-2007, 10:44   #73
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Tiller on an M35

FYI, Had a tiller on my M35. Delivered new at the factory and sailed from St. Pete to Norfolk with a crew of three and no selfsteering or A/P. Sailed very easily and well with the tiller.

Aloha
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Old 01-06-2007, 14:19   #74
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To all, The ram is the correct size and there is no air in the system.
It won't be ram or air. The problem is the helm pump. It needs to be of a size that will turn your rudder from lock to lock in the appropriate amount of turns. Usually 3 turns lock to lock.
My boat I use a undersized helm pump and have geared it up. The wheel does not fit directly on the pump. The pump it'self takes 7 turns for lock to lock. But I have geared it so I get 3 turns lock to lock.
Yes you are right that you don't get a real "feel" for the effort placed on the rudder. But why would you want to fight a rudder all day. I'm with Del. I can leave the wheel where I place it. If there is load on the rudder, I do certainly feel the extra effort. But I don't have to fight the effort. IMO, it's not like a race car where you want to feel the road under the tires.
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Old 01-06-2007, 15:33   #75
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For boats with outboard rudders there is also trimtab steering. Hooking up to a small trimtab on the trailing edge of the rudder makes steering little finger light and lets you use a tiny autopilot with tiny current draw.I've used this system for 23 years . No problem. You can also use the trimtab to take the weather helm out , altho a better hull shape , with fuller bows and leaner aft sections, is the ultimate solution.
Brent
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