Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-10-2009, 03:37   #61
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
One other thing that I see in my post but also we see in other ideas...

The dream of buying a 'steal'.

Say a boat gets to Australia or the Caribbean and the couple acrimoniously spilt and the aggrieved half sells the boat for 10% of its value.

Who do you think buys that boat? You? Me?


Like hell, buddy!

The person who gets the real steal, the once in a lifetime cheap buy will probably be some EXPERT in the marine industry. Some broker or trader with his eyes out for the Hurricane Damaged but good boat; the Liquidators sale; the Customs Forfeiture auction etc.

There ain't no fire sale steals for the 'normal' buyer. We get fair market price. If we are lucky In a way thats kinda good. We can budget fair market price if we are realistic

Mark
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 04:09   #62
blu
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Far North Queensland Oz
Boat: Herroscoff H28 29ft Belo Vula
Posts: 59
Images: 1
Ref import fees yachts into OZ. 5% duty + 10% GST + (if sailed) overseas freight determined having regard to essential sailing costs bla bla If you have any doubts or queries seek further information from a Customs Information and Support Centre.
Reference importing a yacht
So I did and after finally being put onto someone, who thought they knew, I was assured it's only 15% (duty and GST only). Will give you the final outcome around mid to late Jan when I get the boat back. S'pose it will all boil down to the customs walla who greets me on my return. Hope I can retain my sense of humour.
__________________

__________________
blu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 04:30   #63
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,842
My brain hurts now.... thanks a lot Mark

What I was more wondering was how the calculated your taxable "shipping" cost when the two of you sailed the boat yourselves. My understanding is that they would estimate the costs based on you paying a professional crew to sail it to Aus. Did they base it on the elapsed time you actually took or do they base it on an estimate sailing time if the crew was not focused on trying to get drunk in every yacht club along the way and staying until they are refused bar service?

Also do they base the crew costs on two people because two actually sailed it or to they assume a delivery company would insist on a skipper and 3 crew?

Also I assume (hope) the base the taxable shipping on where you purchased the boat and not where it was manufactured?

(OK I am a bit OT but it is also relevant to one of the OP's possible options)
__________________
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 05:01   #64
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
What I was more wondering was how the calculated your taxable "shipping" cost when the two of you sailed the boat yourselves.


Oh its all clearly written out in the legislation and available on the net under Importing a Yacht on the Customs website.

Quote:
Where the yacht is sailed to Australia, overseas freight will be determined having regard to essential sailing costs incurred under the most commercially viable conditions. Such costs would include sailing expenditure necessarily incurred while the vessel is actually sailing (and entering and leaving) those ports of call on the most commercially viable route. It would not include any in port expenditure related to the vessel's period of stopover
. Where supported by sufficient/reliable information, essential sailing costs would also include:
  • cost of maps, charts pilot books, light/radio lists, etc.
  • crew's hire/wages or forage allowance in lieu
  • victualling or food costs (does not include tobacco and alcoholic beverages)
  • bunkering or oil/fuel costs.
This is an indicative rather than exhaustive list, if you have any doubts or queries seek further information from a Customs Information and Support Centre 1300 363 263

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4365


As Blu says "S'pose it will all boil down to the customs walla who greets me on my return. Hope I can retain my sense of humour."

We decided to enter in Sydney as thats where the customs head office is (SBO Small Boat Office). So we bargained on the head office being correct and paying what is correct rather than taking the chance of getting it cheaper, with luck, or more expensive if out of luck.

Whatever the situation one MUST know the law. We met a bloke in Tonga who had been trying to INCREASE the value of his boat and adding all the expenses he could thin of... instead of DECREASING its value! LOLOL He was a dead set funny fukkar! He emailed us later and said the customs people saw the funny side and charged him the lower amount! LOL even lower that waht he orght to have paid.

So when dealing with Customs do what Blu says and keep a genuine smile on your dial Yes you have to pay tax. But smile and its likely to be lower than the tax a cockhead gets to pay


Mark
PS Hope the Mods don't read that post to closely... lol their eyes would have glazed over after 2 lines

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 06:26   #65
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,842
I guess if you are importing an expensive boat any tax on the shipping would pretty much be a "drop in the ocean" and not worth losing sleep over. On the other hand the tax on shipping a cheap boat may not be any less and therefore hurt a lot.

Although I seem to recall reading that shipping a container was not that greatly expensive and if the OP was to buy a boat in the US that could be fitted into a container, then it may work out cheaper than sailing to Aus.

But given the OP's budget I have a feeling that the only sensible option is to find something close to home. I also think that the best way for the OP to find a boat to suit their needs would be to visit the boats in the budget and see first hand whether they suit. At the end of the day, no one but the OP knows what they can really live in.

__________________
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 07:24   #66
Registered User
 
mischief's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Port Stephens Australia
Boat: Nantucket 33
Posts: 221
Hi all,
Ive not imported a yacht but have also researched it and been on the phone to Cutoms and Quarenteen numerous times.
Here is what I have deducted, like I said though I have not done this so..

If buying a yacht in US thats US built its GST only of 10%. This is on the; actual purchase price, normal port fees on the direct route, and if sailing yourself actual costs on provisions , fuel etc. If no crew is hired then no GST needs to be paid for that.
I have been told and assured that as long as the figures seem reasonable that there will be no problems. I asked "what if you are really economical when provisioning etc will you charge GST only on actual costs or what you deem reasonable?" The reply was," look at the end of the day if someone sails up in a simple yacht and all the signs are there that what there saying is true then we go on that. If someone sailed up in a upmarket yacht and tried to tell us they suffered to safe fuel costs and only ate potatoes and limes to keep costs down then were going to come up with a figure."

Truely though the issue does not seem to be with customs at all. The responses have always been consitant with a realtive good feel. The real costs lay with Quarenteen, where my rough calculations seem to indicate another $2500-$7000 in fees inspections etc plus fumigations and disposals.

BTW my estamation for importing was to sail not have shipped which is not as bad as I thought. I recieved a quote to ship a 20,000lb 40' yacht all expanses included was $25000USD plus import fees like Quarintine and Customs. That was water to water shipping and included; destepping and stepping mast, fumigfation, packaging etc. I should also add then when yachts come shipped Quarenteen fees are less (less inspections) However sounds like as per Marks post, may incure another 5% GST even if US built. You would have to add road transport as well. Which I have been quoted for $3500 Water to water from NY to Calif. That sounded pretty good. Still those fees are to high for me and I would be looking at sailing if I bought in US.

As far as exploring the option of buying in the Americas well... If I bought in Canada, no worries Im a dual Citizen so I could Work on it save a bit and then sail back. If I bought State side I would have to be sure I was buying a yacht all lined up. If the deal fell through I would need some back ups knowing I was picking one of the selected yachts.
The yacht I selected would have to be virtually ready to go straight to Mexico or made ready in short order. Once there Labour and living is much cheaper while we ensured the yacht was ready to start crusiing to Aus.
I would also Work on first reaching NZ rather then Australia as being the primary target. Here as Aussies we can cruise for a while and get everything lined up for Australia Quarenteen. I would do cleaning, Fumigation etc all in NZ everything I could do to make comming into Austrlaia easier and cheaper. Its much easier to do all the compliance items before hand and entering as a visitor to NZ is easier then importing. I hope that makes sense. When you look through all the AQUIS requirements you see there is a lot you can do to eliminate causes for concearn wich eliminate certain inspections and super fees.

I know my estimation of $20K USD in costs is a bit general but I think its not too far out. You have to remember there are lots of ways to save money. Where one might get a hotel I might stay in a hostel or the airport for a night, while shopping and deciding on a yacht I would ask to spend the night on the Yacht I was looking to purchase to get more aquanted with her. Theres a host of solutions for keeping costs down while on a mission. I have made my space available to many and it always seems to come back.

I guess the real draw about the yachts from the US is I am a sucker for charachter yachts. There are some yachts that have that style or at least a good dose of it and they are priced good. Here they are few and far between and way over priced.

But the reality is, I am probably better off at this point buying something more local either here NZ or Tas.


Now I have a question....excuse my ignorance......What does OP stand for?
__________________
mischief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 07:32   #67
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by mischief View Post
Now I have a question....excuse my ignorance......What does OP stand for?
Original Poster
__________________
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 07:39   #68
Registered User
 
mischief's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Port Stephens Australia
Boat: Nantucket 33
Posts: 221
DOH!
__________________
mischief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 08:35   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 8
westsail 32. this one is newly listed and the owner says he will deliver it anywhere in the world for free, so long as his return flight and basic expenses are paid:
1974 Westsail Cutter rig Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

the majority of westsails have a seaberth as well as a double v-berth. put the tot in the seaberth with a lee cloth, put the baby in the v-berth with you. that arrangement could work well for years. we have a three year old and are in the process of purchasing one. i know a family of 4 (two young kids) that has one, lives aboard it part time and plans on cruising full time pretty soon.

do a westsail 32 search on yachtworld and you'll get a good idea for layouts. i think the above listing is so new that they haven't even been able to put pics up yet. i think westsail's really have just about everything you're looking for, but of course the problem is that they're scarce in your part of the world. plenty of them here though, and they can make the trip back no problem.
WESTSAIL - WORLD CRUISER YACHT CO.
WOA Web Site
__________________
Carley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 10:40   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Boat: Albin Ballad; 1978; 30'-00" "SVINT II"
Posts: 87
Images: 6
Mischief.
Do yourself a favour, read some of the posts on a thread I started a few days ago....... "cost of cruising" .There are many folks here on this forum that will convice one that the cost of sailing is very high, and then there are those who will let you know that it isn't that far out of anyones reach. The ocean is a big place, there is place for everyone....
My two cents worth.
__________________
When I'm not around, look at the horizon, that's where you'll find me.
Vic de Beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 15:13   #71
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Just a thought, but given that importing into Oz appears to be an expensive PITA - with the local boats priced to factor this in - and your goal is to later leave Oz on your boat travels.............why not both buy and then start your cruising abroad? ok, you don't get the boat now - but..................

Obviously still need to buy well (price / condition), but wouldn't be under such pressure to buy within a few days of getting off the plane - even if the first month (or 2?) of your cruising life was spent ashore in a boatyard .........no reason why you couldn't end up in Oz "in due course", but not being the no.1 goal.

Alternatively, why not roll back on the transpacific / ocean girdling capability and go for a more limited cruising area (it's a big world to choose from ) and buy accordingly - with the intention that if you later want to go further afield you simply sell and buy a more suitable boat using your own first hand experiannce to decide your priorities............even if the price of all that is a trip back to Oz (by Jumbo jet) to finance the next boat / voyage.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2009, 18:28   #72
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
DOJ has, apart from sailing with that old goat, some great ideas! IF: you really want to travel the world and become a sea gypsy- why not start it by slumming around some large marinas in the USA? Do manual labor and learn about the boats in the marina and then get a good one that has fallen through the cracks.
I know some marinas in Texas and Florida that could probably use you and your SO.
So what about it? Do you feel lucky? I think it would quite an adventure.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2009, 05:33   #73
Registered User
 
mischief's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Port Stephens Australia
Boat: Nantucket 33
Posts: 221
Well definately some good insight and ideas. Just so happens I love Westsails and all thier finicky ways but would take any good yacht that fits the bill. We are going on full alert, looking while saving when evrything comes together I guess it will be the right choice. We will explore multiple avenues and just may end up working abroad to find a yacht or enticing someone to deliver. In the meantime we will remain focussed on our goal.....I must be Ill or something because everyday while at work, especially when the wind is fresh with a bit of a bite, I look out past the heads andthe sea is calling. One of my work mates may even say boy you wouldnt want to be out there today and all I can think about is being far away from land out in the middle of it suffering in seaspray and being totally alive. Yup Im sick I know most people probably dream of the white beaches. Of course those beaches would not be as wonderful if you stepped of the 747 and caught the cab there.
__________________
mischief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2009, 13:36   #74
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
And the truth of it is most of the great beaches do not have a 747 and a cab.(I consider a great beach vacant, littered with shells and old relics of history close by) You got the sickness dude! With any luck you will not find a cure!
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2012, 16:35   #75
Registered User
 
mischief's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Port Stephens Australia
Boat: Nantucket 33
Posts: 221
Re: What Yacht to Ocean Go for 4 on a Budget?

Well been a while since I've been to this thread but many seem to be reading it so I thought an update should be in order.
We saved like mad sold the compass 28 manged a loan and bought a Nantucket 33
We paid a bit of a premium on her but she was by far the nicest one we've seen hit the market in 10yrs. Always had my eye on one but never seen one as nice as this.
There were still a heap of issues as I've come to expect but we have been going through them over the past year while still enjoying to sail her. I've not sailed her all winter and have been redoing all the wiring, insulation, fabricating new headliner (high gloss white cedar strip) upholstery fabric is on its way. I still have refrigeration rebuild ice boxes deployment and rebuild water tanks....well plus a few hundred other things. Lol.
We hope to have her back sailing in a month or 2 and all compleate for our first big shakedown trip in one years time.
After careful consideration this boat offers everything we wanted and more.
We sailed up the cost in confused seas 30knt winds against the AEC and she had a wonderful motion and was solid as a tank.
I thought the high freeboard on the flush deck etc would make her sailing suffer.
This particular one was one of the last Compredore yachts built and they made some subtle changes and added more ballast.
In the end she sails very good and is not tender she points high and is smooth in open water as well as the harbour and manovering in the marina.
For those not familur this is the Nantucket islander 33 built in Australia
A well laid out center cockpit. On paper and the underwater lines are very much like the Hallberg Rassey 350 even the layout has similarities. (Might add my mate has an HR 350)
Okay hope this helps someone else on thier quest.
FYI we radically increased our budget to what many said we would need to pay.
Cheers
__________________

__________________
mischief is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ocean Reef Yacht Club, Grand Bahama Island skbaja Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 21-05-2009 13:07
furling on a budget? drew23 Multihull Sailboats 10 19-12-2008 16:43
Emergency crews puzzled by yacht find Yacht Lead sneuman Health, Safety & Related Gear 76 08-10-2008 10:02
Looking for a paid Mate position on a sailing yacht or power yacht delivery. CharlesFCook Crew Archives 1 19-08-2007 09:33
World Ocean Database and World Ocean Atlas Series GordMay The Library 2 15-01-2007 21:14



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.