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Old 04-10-2009, 15:47   #46
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One can get X $ value of a boat, add one or two things and set off around the world (our case). Or one can get same X $ value of a different boat that needs further XX $ to be spend towards making her usable to cross the pond (the one behind the house). Now, if it is your first boat, you may be unable to say the former type of boat from the latter trap (not a boat).

If you want to go 4 of you I should not even consider any boat smaller than 30'. Mine is 26 sailed the 2 of us .... too small ? well - let's put it this way - very, very intimate.

I see most under X feet boats intrinsically unsafe - I believe that under some length you never get the speed, and under some displacement you are vulnerable even in the otherwise non-threatening sea conditions (say 40 knots for 24 hours).

With my experience, I would go for a 32+ footer, just for the two of us. I believe a party of 4 will need at least such a, or preferably bigger, boat - think water supply, think provisions, think the stuff you want to drag along.

If you are persistent, & lucky, you will find the right boat at the right place. But hurry not. And cross off those little shooters - they are only just marginally good enough, but actually not quite the tool for the job.

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Old 04-10-2009, 16:07   #47
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Take a look on Trade-a-boat right now at a 32' John Pugh Moonwind. Steel design, aft cabin, seperate head, v berth (big enough for kids) sea kindly design with full keel. We owned the other one still listed on the site (sold years ago but the brokers don't seem to want to take it off). The one that is in your price range is $15000 and we loved ours very much. A friend is sailing one currently and is half way back from Finland where he sailed to from Cairns a few years ago. Good luck - I think you would like this design. Fiona
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Old 04-10-2009, 18:53   #48
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Don't sweat it...

Mischief,
Don't sweat the commentary that you'll sometimes get here, it goes with the territory. Remember, some truths apply to all and are immutable, but most are subjective or objective and don't necessarily apply. There are a LOT of opinions out there on how things should be done and lots of folks willing to give 'em, but if you'll pardon my crude quote here (my military coarseness), "there's always more than one way to skin a cat, even if you have to beat the hair off it!" It may not be the way others think you should do it nor what is percieved as the right way. As long as it gets done! Do what you feel you need and just like your 2 year old, you'll learn from your mistakes.

And speaking of the kids, I think your in for a lot of grey hair trying to keep your kids ON the boat and not in the drink next to it. Trust me from my personal experience when I say it needs only happen once. If you and they survive it, you may be ready to burn the boat to the waterline. If you don't, I guarantee you will! It only took once for me. Take your time, do NOT hurry, and turn your kids into the "little fish" they'll need to be as soon as possible if not NOW for their own safety.

Ok, 'nuff of my ole' BS.....

Here's another item for consideration......

This was an ad and thread for a Pearson 36' sloop. Read the thread then look at the ad. There is some controversy as to whether this is a true 365 (ketch) w/mizzen removed or erroneously identified. But honestly, you should be able to find plenty of candidates right there at home. I think with kids anything less than probably 40 is gonna get real small, real fast......

The thread...
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...16k-31132.html

The video ad....
YouTube - VideoBoatAd's Channel
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Old 05-10-2009, 00:13   #49
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Thanks for the replies,
No worries Mark, I did not see your post just prior to my response. You welcome aboard anytime for a splash of red.
Newt good suggestion. I guess thats exactly where I am comming from.

I would really like to know what yachts I should keep my eye out for so when that distress sale or good deal comes up I can identify it without wasting time researching and then find out its under contract by the time I realise what a good deal it was.
I also know that If I have a number of suitable yachts to watch out for, I increase my chance of getting a good deal. I am willing to wait for the right one but at the same time for the right deal it could be possible to buy now and take our dream to the next step.

this thread seems to have wandered a bit but still good information. I think I will get a list of yacht I that seem to be a possibility for blue water and post them here to see what people know of them and if they would be up to the task? Thanks for the yacht suggestions and insight so far.

Fishman, points taken, Little one already been in swim lessons since 6 months. (As part of my rescue work I used to certify lifeguards and taught lessons from 6 months to senior lifeguard as well as instructing rescue operations. So I agree with how important early instruction is and also how fast an accident can happen. The only way for us to know if it will work at there young age is to give it a careful go. If we start greying to much we can restratagize and proceed with a different tactic to reach our end goal. But oh yeah its not going to be easy although it wont be boring either LOL
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Old 05-10-2009, 00:41   #50
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I think that you know what you need to do already. Look around and find a decent boat for a cheap price that somebody is looking to unload because A) they can no longer afford it, or B) are sick of the lifestyle (or in poor health). Here in the USA due to the poor economy its now a buyer's market. You can get a boat for half what was being asked for it a year ago, easy. Whatever boat you find, find a place that you can put the boat up on the hard and do as much of the work yourself as you can...which it sounds like you already have where you work. Put the word out on the internet what kind of boat you're looking for. Sometimes people that weren't even advertising their boat for sale will see your 'wanted' ad and respond...with a great deal. Now is a great time economically to move over from a house to a boat. Waiting until everything is rosy means that you'll be back to paying top dollar for everything .....like some of the naysayers hereabouts apparently did
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:41   #51
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Mischief - your main constraint is dollars. Why don't you simply do searches on Yachtworld, Boatpoint etc based on your price range, dig out the dozen or so decent value probables and post them here asking for opinions on each design.

Have you considered a Wharram Design Cat? Either to purchase or to build in your back yard? Cheap and simple and most definitely not fancy.

e.g. James Wharram Designs -Home of the self-build Catamaran.
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Old 05-10-2009, 16:17   #52
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A good Wharram very difficult to find. Once you find one - it turns out to be sort of like expensive. But I would love a professionally built Wharram as a cruising platform. The lifestyle may suck to some while it will appeal to others - Wharrams are very much 'outdoor' boats - not fun when the weather turns nasty. But their stability & unsinkability (if made of wood or sandwich) is a very serious benefit.

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Old 05-10-2009, 19:08   #53
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Here's a 1971 Dufour Arpege 30' for only $12,500 down in Naples Florida. Nice bluewater boat. Probably some retired snowbird or their spouse ended up with health problems and now needs to sell their sailboat. Happens all the time. About 2/3 down the page. Good Old Boat - Boats For Sale
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Old 05-10-2009, 19:25   #54
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Willard 8-ton cutter:

1976 Willard 8 Ton Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Not sure what sort of issues they may have, but they seem to be pretty solid, heavily-built boats. (But, alas...no quarter berths)
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Old 05-10-2009, 19:33   #55
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Hey guys Its nice to offer up links to boats in the price range, but didn't the OP asks for a boat in Australia? How is a USA boat going to help? They are 2 totally differnt price point markets. What you can get for $30k in the USA just doesnt exist 20,000 kms away in Australia

The cost to transport the boat to Australia would be far in excess of its value.
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Old 05-10-2009, 19:46   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Hey guys Its nice to offer up links to boats in the price range, but didn't the OP asks for a boat in Australia? How is a USA boat going to help? They are 2 totally differnt price point markets. What you can get for $30k in the USA just doesnt exist 20,000 kms away in Australia

The cost to transport the boat to Australia would be far in excess of its value.
The way I read it was that he just wants ideas on what makes/models to be on the look-out for? The links are just to give him an idea of what a boat of a particular type is all about - layout, sail plan, ballast ratios etc etc etc. so he can decide if he's interested or not (in a boat like the one in the link) if one should suddenly show up "down under".

Here's what Mischief wrote earlier today:

"I would really like to know what yachts I should keep my eye out for so when that distress sale or good deal comes up I can identify it without wasting time researching and then find out its under contract by the time I realise what a good deal it was.
I also know that If I have a number of suitable yachts to watch out for, I increase my chance of getting a good deal. I am willing to wait for the right one but at the same time for the right deal it could be possible to buy now and take our dream to the next step."
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Old 05-10-2009, 22:58   #57
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I haven't read this whole thread, but seeing as you are in Oz, thought I would throw in a couple of Australia-centric suggestions:

1. Mottle 33
2. East Coast 31
3. Adams 31
4. Cole 32

All are good boats and there are plenty of them about... most will be at the upper end of, or above your price range, but there are cheaper ones around.

They will accommodate 2 adults and 2 small children, they are well designed vessels with potential to make blue-water passages. They are relatively simple to sail.
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Old 06-10-2009, 00:02   #58
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GANLEY CRUISING CUTTER boat details - BoatPoint Australia

This little Ganley Hitchiker looks sweet. - have a look at yachthub.com - monohulls 31-35ft. Quite a few possibilities there.

Cheers.
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Old 06-10-2009, 00:12   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Hey guys Its nice to offer up links to boats in the price range, but didn't the OP asks for a boat in Australia? How is a USA boat going to help? They are 2 totally differnt price point markets. What you can get for $30k in the USA just doesnt exist 20,000 kms away in Australia

The cost to transport the boat to Australia would be far in excess of its value.
Mark, the OP did suggest the possibility buying in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by mischief View Post
Here is another Idea we have tossed around.....We would be willing to fly to the US or Canada and buy a yacht up to 30K AUD work out the bugs for a month or so (possibly sailing to Mexico and. doing repairs or work there) then provisioning and sailing back. obviously buying locally is easier so we would like to explore this but man yachts here seem overpriced. ( I would budget 20K AUD to Import from US to Australia including all asscociated costs, IM not sure if thats low or not)
but the 20K budget sounds a very wishful amount to cover flights, US living costs, provisions, tax on the boat & "shipping" plus other import costs

Out of interest Mark, what was taxable value for the "shipping" of you boat to Aus?
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:27   #60
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Out of interest Mark, what was taxable value for the "shipping" of you boat to Aus?
Well thats THE question of the industry - or our country. Now I know I will get lots of flack for this one, but here it is from my research - and remember I bought a boat overseas.

A Beneteau shipped to Australia from France will be billed to the Australian client at about $80,000 for freight alone.
I don't know how much it is from the USA but I believe its $50k from the USA East Coast and $35k to $40k from the West Coast
This then makes ALL imported boats into Australia $30-$80,000 more than whats buyable overseas.
So the Australian built boats either have a price 'break' over the international competition or a naturally imposed duty or tariff.

Also our population is 20 million and the USA population is 300 million so we have a vastly smaller market.

So, basically in Europe and USA a Beneteau is a very common, budget yacht. But in Australia it is quite a bit higher on the cost and luxury scale.

Our market position has meant many boats in Australia would not be competitive (in price)in the other parts of the world due to this transport 'tariff'.

So any boat in the USA that someone is saying is $20,000 may, in Australia be selling for $100,000!!!! Just because the economics of the market.

Conversely someone mentioned a Cole 31 which is an EXCELLENT Aussie boat and the early 1980's models would be selling in Sydney for $60,000 but in the USA they are unknown so would probably sell for $40,000 but that doesn’t cover the freight charge to get it there!

And then we get onto taxes.....

taxes and Duty are 2 different things..... We ahve a free trade agreement with the USA but goods still pay 10% GST but boats dont pay the 5% luxury tax.

But one of the 'bites' is that our Government charges tax 15% tax on the freight into Australia. So $50,000 freight has an added tax component of $7,500.... Oh it all adds up!

What it does mean is that a $40,000 boat like the OP is after could have its whole value just in tax - a bizarre thought! In reality it means that an Australian buyer of a $40k boat will be an Australian boat. Not American or European is going to sell their boat in Australia and lose half its value.

If the OP buys a boat for $40k in the USA and sails it back to Australia he is up for 10% and 15% of all his import costs i.e. $50k total... still above his $40k so he would be better to buy in Australia.

Thjis is not the end of the story, its only scratching the surface. We investigated it for a full 12 months before we bought - overseas. There are more in's and out's and the very next post will tell you I'm talking outta my butt. But the thing is what an economist will tell you: a price is a price because of conditions in the market where it is bought.



Does this explain it at all? LOL I think I have confused myself!

Mark
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