What Would You Do? 26ft vs 34ft

[Incentive]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

And above that, the word circumnavigation appeared too.

Uhmmmm, circumnavigating what, an island?

It may be difficult to find a 34' boat @ 12k (with all the goodies ...) that would not require another Xk to make her a proper cruising tool.

Not to say such deals are not possible, just preciously rare.

b.

Yes it's not everyday such a deal present itself...and trust me this is a good one... Having worked for a boatyard doing all kinds of refits I fully understand the implications here.....all the goodies means new main very good 135 jib on roller furl , sonar and simrad auto pilot, not to mention well maintained yanmar, new cousins... And more!!
My only problem with this boat is the investment .... Exactly what I was going to invest on the Grampian

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Incentive

Yes it's not everyday such a deal present itself...and trust me this is a good one... Having worked for a boatyard doing all kinds of refits I fully understand the implications here.....all the goodies means new main very good 135 jib on roller furl , sonar and simrad auto pilot, not to mention well maintained yanmar, new cousins... And more!!
My only problem with this boat is the investment .... Exactly what I was going to invest on the Grampian

What year is this boat, and what is the make and model of the roller furler?

If it's Hood 810, you should replace either the lower unit or the whole thing, because 135 is a lot of headsail on a Hunter, and the Hood 810 can't be reefed. She'll pop out like a parachute in 5 mph wind. It makes a number of things difficult. She rides much "harder" than she needs to in a moderate storm (translation you're both more likely to get seasick because of the way she bounces around), and she'll still sail when "heaved to." If you're counting on heaving to to keep you out of a bad situation, you need to be able to partially furl that headsail.

Mine has a stiff foam luff which supposedly protects the sail to some degree from deforming when partially furled. What that sail is doing on a Hood 810 roller furler I have no idea, but I intend to remedy that.

[Incentive]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

First of all, if you're going to get "a drogue," I would suggest getting two. then if your steering goes out, you can hang one off each jib winch and steer, sort of. It's not great but it's a lot better than nothing.

If you're going to cruise you should have all those other things (I don't know about double headstay), but you should have your boat as seaworthy as possible. You don't want to have to buy these things, say, in Jamaica, and have to pay all the extra shipping. I say go out prepared.

The Grampian looks like a stout little boat, but it is a small cabin for two people. I read something online when I was considering moving aboard. I'm single, so it wasn't an issue for me, but someone asked the man, "What do you and your wife do when you're mad at each other?" He said, "I get in the car and go for a drive."

No boat would be big enough for the two of them. You have to be able to choose to let things drip, one person go up to the bow and the other person accept that one's need for some "away" time -- and not follow him or her.

It can be really hard to do that instead of stomping to the same place and saying, "And another thing ...!"

In other words, look at how you handle tensions when they occur. How will that play out on a boat?

I also own a whitby25 folkboat , this little jewel won my heart the first time I laid eyes on. I sailed her across the georgianne bay after a total refit, unfortunately this was my first sailing experience and I made every mistake in the book. I obtained the Grampian cause it made me feel more secure not cause of size, however now I've grown to appreciate more room but still prefer the folk... Maybe and I say this with reservations, the wife is not a proper partner if my intent is to cruise?

[Incentive]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

What year is this boat, and what is the make and model of the roller furler?

If it's Hood 810, you should replace either the lower unit or the whole thing, because 135 is a lot of headsail on a Hunter, and the Hood 810 can't be reefed. She'll pop out like a parachute in 5 mph wind. It makes a number of things difficult. She rides much "harder" than she needs to in a moderate storm (translation you're both more likely to get seasick because of the way she bounces around), and she'll still sail when "heaved to." If you're counting on heaving to to keep you out of a bad situation, you need to be able to partially furl that headsail.

Mine has a stiff foam luff which supposedly protects the sail to some degree from deforming when partially furled. What that sail is doing on a Hood 810 roller furler I have no idea, but I intend to remedy that.

1983 hunter 34ft.....don't know what furler?
Going back on my Grampian this Friday. Will sail it from midland across the grate lakes to Montreal....then will decide on the hunter or not

[Bruce B]

I've had three boats in the past 40 years - a 33 foot wood sloop; a 37' Ericson and my current 52' Grand Soleil. I've raced on IOR 1/2 tonners, 1 tonners, 44' sloops & up as well as solings and etchells. I would recommend 33-37 feet for anyone who wants to spend considerable amount of time cruising on & living on a boat. While on a Transat with the 52, we did run into some guys crossing on a 26 & they made it, but I think it's not ideal. Reasons: (1) Speed = range. The hull speed of a 35 footer is so much greater than a 26 footer. A 12 hour trip becomes an 8 hour trip. Very helpful for island hopping to get in a new harbor before dark. (2) Storage - if you are going to be on the boat for a while, you will want the space and tankage. (3) Comfort - the extra length reduces pitch; the extra mass helps you punch through smaller chop. (4) Perhaps the most important - if you have a partner who is willing to join you happily, if only you go 34 & up, don't screw that up. There is some additional expense to the larger boat, but not all that much if you do your own bottom and you will quickly learn how to manage the larger sail plan. I'm not a great fan of Hunter's; there are lots of boats in that size/price range. Ericson, Catalina are fine-- but why not a J35 or, if you can afford it an older Sabre 34? Get one that the prior owner has spent a lot of money on.

[Incentive]

Originally Posted by Bruce B

I've had three boats in the past 40 years - a 33 foot wood sloop; a 37' Ericson and my current 52' Grand Soleil. I've raced on IOR 1/2 tonners, 1 tonners, 44' sloops & up as well as solings and etchells. I would recommend 33-37 feet for anyone who wants to spend considerable amount of time cruising on & living on a boat. While on a Transat with the 52, we did run into some guys crossing on a 26 & they made it, but I think it's not ideal. Reasons: (1) Speed = range. The hull speed of a 35 footer is so much greater than a 26 footer. A 12 hour trip becomes an 8 hour trip. Very helpful for island hopping to get in a new harbor before dark. (2) Storage - if you are going to be on the boat for a while, you will want the space and tankage. (3) Comfort - the extra length reduces pitch; the extra mass helps you punch through smaller chop. (4) Perhaps the most important - if you have a partner who is willing to join you happily, if only you go 34 & up, don't screw that up. There is some additional expense to the larger boat, but not all that much if you do your own bottom and you will quickly learn how to manage the larger sail plan. I'm not a great fan of Hunter's; there are lots of boats in that size/price range. Ericson, Catalina are fine-- but why not a J35 or, if you can afford it an older Sabre 34? Get one that the prior owner has spent a lot of money on.

You bring many valid points...I've sailed the Grampian at a sustained 7.4kn and occasional 8kn wich I think is very good for a small boat? I do think my folkboat was faster at least in lighter winds but I did not have a GPS to confirm this then.... I agree with everything you said, you bring one question up however, how much faster can a hunter 34 be?

[goat]

How about a grampian 34? View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com
It seems like each length of boat enables a different cabin layout. Comparing a 34 hunter vs a 26 grampian you'll lose every time. Hunters do a great job of maximizing space and the only way you'll convince your lady that the galley is not too small is to give her a bigger galley.

[Incentive]

Originally Posted by goat

How about a grampian 34? View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com
It seems like each length of boat enables a different cabin layout. Comparing a 34 hunter vs a 26 grampian you'll lose every time. Hunters do a great job of maximizing space and the only way you'll convince your lady that the galley is not too small is to give her a bigger galley.

It's not so much a comparison , I'd rather call it a need. Do I really need bigger? Obviously from the posts there is justifications for a bigger boat, some have offered good common sens reasons why size and displacement could be safer and more enjoin able in the long run... I can't argue this
As for the choice of boat that's the deal I have and it will have to do.... I've seen a Grampian 34 it's a solid boat, love the aft cabine

[Bruce B]

Hull speed is 1.35 x sqrt of the waterline length. So, guessing on some lwl - the 34 footer would have a hull speed around 7kt, while the 26 might be 5.6 or 5.7, so nominally close to 20 percent less. How much wind it takes to get to those speeds upwind depends on things like SA/L, D/L and SA/D ratios. In reality, especially going upwind in any kind of a chop, the difference between a larger boat and a smaller boat will show up more, and I think for most sailors, this is where the bigger boat will have the largest advantage. Blasting downwind with spinnakers, it will be the same as the hull speed difference or perhaps a little less (none of these boats will surf much). On a broad reach the extra LWL of the larger boat will be noticeable. You can look up detailed numbers for boat you are considering through the old IMS numbers or perhaps PHRF ratings. The deltas are usually seconds per mile, which you can translate into % speed differences.

[Bruce B]

One last thought. You asked "Do I really need 34 feet"? My answer is, if there is any way at all that you can afford it, yes. I am convinced that you will be much happier long term if you can pull it off. B

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Incentive

I also own a whitby25 folkboat , this little jewel won my heart the first time I laid eyes on. I sailed her across the georgianne bay after a total refit, unfortunately this was my first sailing experience and I made every mistake in the book. I obtained the Grampian cause it made me feel more secure not cause of size, however now I've grown to appreciate more room but still prefer the folk... Maybe and I say this with reservations, the wife is not a proper partner if my intent is to cruise?

That's a difficult situation, but maybe you should try it on a smaller scale. Maybe she would come to like it.

People are ... different. We're all different. I can look at something and love it, and another person hates it. I had a friend of mine, a younger woman, and her two children on my boat for the weekend. I thought her son would *love* being in the vee-berth. Personally, I think it's cool. But the shape of it and the low ceiling creeped him out. His mother, sister and I were in the main cabin, and we ended up putting back cushions on the floor so he could sleep there.

It just surprised me -- what 10 year old boy wouldn't love to spend a night in a vee berth? But he hated it.

I think you should do a charter first before making any irreversible decisions.

[Incentive]

Originally Posted by Bruce B

Hull speed is 1.35 x sqrt of the waterline length. So, guessing on some lwl - the 34 footer would have a hull speed around 7kt, while the 26 might be 5.6 or 5.7, so nominally close to 20 percent less. How much wind it takes to get to those speeds upwind depends on things like SA/L, D/L and SA/D ratios. In reality, especially going upwind in any kind of a chop, the difference between a larger boat and a smaller boat will show up more, and I think for most sailors, this is where the bigger boat will have the largest advantage. Blasting downwind with spinnakers, it will be the same as the hull speed difference or perhaps a little less (none of these boats will surf much). On a broad reach the extra LWL of the larger boat will be noticeable. You can look up detailed numbers for boat you are considering through the old IMS numbers or perhaps PHRF ratings. The deltas are usually seconds per mile, which you can translate into % speed differences.

6.27 according to carls calculator and that seems easy in moderate winds, but with the info you've provided I must try the hunter and see how they compare... This will be exiting....thanks

[Incentive]

Originally Posted by Bruce B

One last thought. You asked "Do I really need 34 feet"? My answer is, if there is any way at all that you can afford it, yes. I am convinced that you will be much happier long term if you can pull it off. B

Yes I can pull it off, in fact will make the call tomorrow ..... Will sail the boat when I get back from the grate lakes and see what happens.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by goat

How about a grampian 34? View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com
It seems like each length of boat enables a different cabin layout. Comparing a 34 hunter vs a 26 grampian you'll lose every time. Hunters do a great job of maximizing space and the only way you'll convince your lady that the galley is not too small is to give her a bigger galley.

Well in fact that is another problem with the Hunter 31' (unless it's a Cherubini, not sure about that, but the 33' Cherubini I had had a great galley for a sailboat except for the CNG stove -- can't find CNG anywhere around here.)

I use the chart table and the top step of the companionway (covered of course) for my galley and make do -- but living on the boat is something I desperately wanted, wanted it enough to make a *lot* of compromises.

Then there's the size of the head. Again, the 33' Cherubini came out WAY ahead on that one. Unfortunately there were some serious problems with the Cherubini. Sigh ...

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Incentive

6.27 according to carls calculator and that seems easy in moderate winds, but with the info you've provided I must try the hunter and see how they compare... This will be exiting....thanks

I have a Hunter 31' and we had no trouble getting her up to a sustained 7.3k with no surfing -- true speed over ground. On my old 25' Irwin I got her up to 6.5k with no help from tide or currents, and again, moderate conditions without any surfing.

That formula for hull speed is only the roughest of guides. So much depends on your sail plan and probably even the shape of the keel.

One REAL advantage Hunters have is that they turn on a dime. They're exceptionally maneuverable in tight places -- such as unfamiliar marinas. I have literally parallel parked my Hunter at a T dock with only a couple of extra feet to work with.

But that same trait is not so great in a storm.