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Old 28-09-2013, 00:26   #61
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

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Originally Posted by sabray View Post
I admire your knowledge and skill base. Cedar as a structure for a building is very different then a bow sprit. Spruce especially Sitka is magnificent for a mast. It will rot like compost meal if its wet. It will rot faster then good yellow pitch pine. Black locust is amazing in its strength.
Laminated woods are very good at weight strength ratios. None of this means that they are good choices for a bow sprit. Guess we will just disagree. I won't link how good hard yellow pine real hard yellow pine is cause I have no data . It's damn good and resists rot better then cedar or spruce. Locust will out perform your cedar bowsprit on every load and rot resistance test.
Not going to build a mast of locust cause that's not where it works best. Sitka masts are great. Not going to plank a boat in locust. I'd plank it in cedar because its one if the best materials for that. Why are you posting links to building structures? That is not the same application.


I'll post it again, since you apparently didn't read it.


Boat building lumber and plywood 5


Note that while yellow pine does rate fairly well for strength and rot resistance, it is also one of the only soft woods rated as "heavy".


I would think the fact that the worlds oldest wooden structure is built of the wood you deride would be relevant to the topic, whether it sits on land or water.
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Old 28-09-2013, 00:48   #62
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Thanks minaret. As a retired ship wright I hardly wish to cross up one of my own.
I disagree. I think you are totally wrong. A near idiot on this point. I am baffled that someone like you can post such dribble. As a shipwright you know I am holding back being polite and not fully expressing my opinion as a good old salt should.
I am quite confident that the boats I built with locust sprits, hollow box spruce spars, and cedar planking will clean up in any race with your one wood meets all needs philosophy.
Worked in the far north east so look deep for the dry humor . Beneath my furrowed brow is a glint of laughter.
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Old 28-09-2013, 05:36   #63
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

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Yall might think a little out of the box, and try looking at black cypress, most of this is under water for years, tough as a rock, hard as hell, and it don't rot ! And is plain "buetymuss!!" It is really great looking and we get it down here for way less then teak or any old growth west coast woods. Just a thought I just replaced the sprit on the ketch we just sold, and it was really much a selling point LOL
If I am not mistaken Black Cypress is just another name for Bald Cypress, which has already been mentioned.

Great wood. Often used for cooperage, I knew someone who planked a boat once using wood they salvaged from a water tower.

http://untappedcities.com/2012/06/18...prolific-icon/
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Old 28-09-2013, 05:56   #64
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

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I won't link how good hard yellow pine real hard yellow pine is cause I have no data . It's damn good and resists rot
Dade County Pine (unlike most pine) is a hard wood. It's so hard that termites can't eat it. Floor boards made of Dade Pine will greatly increase the value of a house in South Florida. Unfortunately it is no longer allowed to be harvested, so what is out there already is all you can get.

I do not know if this wood is a good material for a bowsprit or not, but I would like to hear opinions on that subject from others who know more about it.
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Old 28-09-2013, 06:06   #65
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

"Silver Spruce". AKA ALUMINUM! Cheap, easy to work, light weight, rot resistant.
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Old 28-09-2013, 06:16   #66
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

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Dade County Pine (unlike most pine) is a hard wood. It's so hard that termites can't eat it. Floor boards made of Dade Pine will greatly increase the value of a house in South Florida. Unfortunately it is no longer allowed to be harvested, so what is out there already is all you can get.

I do not know if this wood is a good material for a bowsprit or not, but I would like to hear opinions on that subject from others who know more about it.
Google "Dade Pine" once, per Wikipedia it is grown in plantations so sourcing it prolly not a big deal. Uses include turpentine production.

Pinus elliottii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 28-09-2013, 06:34   #67
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

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How do ya know its old growth? Is it reclaimed lumber? Almost the only way to get it any more. The only "old growth" left in the US is in our national forests...
The entire boat was made from three selected trees from a private wood lot in northern California. All the lumber was custom sawed to design spec except for some areas where strength differences caused by fir being used were allowed for. Frames are oak..not sure which variety. However, you are likely correct that the trees were not thousands of years old. Likely a couple hundred. When she was constructed there was a Wooden Boat article that included an interview with the builder. The Makela Boat Works still exists, we had to contact them to verify some stuff for insurance purposes.

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Old 28-09-2013, 08:31   #68
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

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Originally Posted by sabray View Post
Thanks minaret. As a retired ship wright I hardly wish to cross up one of my own.
I disagree. I think you are totally wrong. A near idiot on this point. I am baffled that someone like you can post such dribble. As a shipwright you know I am holding back being polite and not fully expressing my opinion as a good old salt should.
I am quite confident that the boats I built with locust sprits, hollow box spruce spars, and cedar planking will clean up in any race with your one wood meets all needs philosophy.
Worked in the far north east so look deep for the dry humor . Beneath my furrowed brow is a glint of laughter.


One of us posted a bunch of links supporting his views. The other posted only opinion. And I certainly never said "one wood meets all needs".
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Old 28-09-2013, 08:34   #69
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

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The entire boat was made from three selected trees from a private wood lot in northern California. All the lumber was custom sawed to design spec except for some areas where strength differences caused by fir being used were allowed for. Frames are oak..not sure which variety. However, you are likely correct that the trees were not thousands of years old. Likely a couple hundred. When she was constructed there was a Wooden Boat article that included an interview with the builder. The Makela Boat Works still exists, we had to contact them to verify some stuff for insurance purposes.

Todd

Nice. However, I think most people will find true old growth quite difficult to source. Most lumber sold as fir any more isn't even fir, it's hem-fir. Meaning its probably from very young hemlock trees instead of fir.
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Old 28-09-2013, 08:35   #70
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

Quite personally, I think this whole discussion of "which wood" is probably pointless and devolves quickly into personal taste and judgement. After all, I don't even have a boat with a bowsprit, and if I did, it would probably be built out of carbon fiber. Build it out of whatever you want and enjoy the hell out of it as long as it lasts.
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Old 28-09-2013, 08:40   #71
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

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Google "Dade Pine" once, per Wikipedia it is grown in plantations so sourcing it prolly not a big deal. Uses include turpentine production.

Pinus elliottii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



True reclaimed heart pine is the only pine I would use for boatbuilding. The really good stuff is so oily it's almost translucent. Very very rare. Still not a structural timber though.


Heart pine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 28-09-2013, 09:29   #72
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

I'm a big proponent of Black Locust for boats but seriously, have any of you ever picked up a Black Locust board? Way too heavy for a bowsprit IMO. I've had boats with Sitka sprits and have made a couple. Will they rot if not kept up? Yes but if you have wood spars, you better be one your maintenance schedule to start with correct?
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Old 28-09-2013, 09:48   #73
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

There's shipwright number three for a lighter sprit. Hi Charlie!
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Old 28-09-2013, 11:28   #74
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I'll just hang out as a rogue. For this boat I would not be worried about weight. Unless your part of oracle. I'll concede, go use spruce. The advantage of spruce is weight to strength. When on a spar 50 plus feet up that can be big. In the bow of a cruising yacht it's reduced. Can we agree on that. The best wood should be more resistant to rot then spruce. Able to withstand huge compression load. it also depends on the length and ability to disassemble for service. Minaret wins the choice award. He is a better shipwright then I. In my day we used live oak for futtocks. Pitch pine or oak for planking big as fishing boats. Smaller guys got cedar planked, oak frames and black locust anywhere you yacht folk use teak today. You can tell old growth pretty quick by looking at the annual rings at the end grain. Farmed woods are even and wide spaced.
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Old 28-09-2013, 11:45   #75
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Re: What wood for a bowsprit?

I stirred up a hornets nest, didn't I!?

I think I've learned enough to get it done.

Thanks.

Now, back to the deck repairs as soon as I replace the water heater whose tank sprung a leak this morning!

Isn't boating fun!
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