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Old 21-08-2009, 10:22   #16
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It seems that what you are looking for is two different boats, your first one, and a blue water boat. Your first boat needs to be something that is forgiving to you, eays hanlding, and perhaps quite small, good for sailing in protected waters.
Once you have experience you will be able to detemin what qualitites you want in future boats. IMHO it is a mistake to buy a blue water boat as your first boat; they are expensive, will need major upgrades, will be harder to handle initially, mostly because of its size. anything you buy for a first boat will be safe enough
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Old 21-08-2009, 12:10   #17
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"What makes boats sink..." OH... I forgot to add.... Architects/engineers who are too enamoured with computers and theoretical material strength data given them by the manufacturers!


Containers: There are 100's of containers lost overboard each year. They are nearly airtight. There was a push at one time to have relief valves to make them sink. I doubt if that was ever done...
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Old 22-08-2009, 13:50   #18
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Usually the skipper and crew.
I've gotta second that, based on some of the claims I've taken ....

~ Someone leaves the lever for the head open, water suctions in, and down you go.
~ Hitting a rock on the way into an inlet
~ Opening the escape hatch on a catamaran while underway

~ Susan
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Old 22-08-2009, 14:26   #19
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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
"What makes boats sink..." OH... I forgot to add.... Architects/engineers who are too enamoured with computers and theoretical material strength data given them by the manufacturers!


Containers: There are 100's of containers lost overboard each year. They are nearly airtight. There was a push at one time to have relief valves to make them sink. I doubt if that was ever done...
Not in my experience are containers air tight or anywhere near close. When a container is filled with packages containing styrofoam, they will float for a long long time, even if a vent were added. What they need are doors that blow open after hitting the water. A hydrostatic switch built into the door latches would work.
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Old 22-08-2009, 14:32   #20
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Fear of sinking is but a very small part of why I would not pick certain boats for certain types of cruising.
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Old 22-08-2009, 15:56   #21
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If you have an opportunity then you might just read these. They may be helpful. It truly is how well a crew can handle the boat and their experience. Sailors who are safety conscious won't cross oceans in poorly constructed craft.

Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom -* Good Old Boats List - choosing a* small voyaging sailboat

and John Vigor's book about small boats to take you anywhere.

regards,
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Old 22-08-2009, 15:59   #22
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Here's the title: Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere by John Vigor

If you click on the link below my signature and type in bluewater I'll bet you find a whole bunch of discussion about which boats are safe in the open ocean.

regards,
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Old 22-08-2009, 16:07   #23
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Oops I copied the title from Amazon and it gave a commercial link. Sorry!
regards
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Old 22-08-2009, 16:38   #24
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many of the boats that are left in the sea are left because the folks on board leave them --not from sinking but from fear or some other factor--lack of skill, multi system failure---the videos i have watched show the boat sailing merrily along as the skipper is hauled out by his jacket or other method--didnt step UP to the liferaft, as it were----i know of a catalina 27 that circumnavigated, i know of other boats that others would not even consider taking out of the harbor have sailed across open waters--there is no set rule as to what kind of boat should one buy to do these things--is just what the individual desires to sail and what his budget can afford and his fear factor can tolerate. i have a formosa 41.. i also have a sloop--ericson 35mII--i wont take the ericson on a long sail--hasnt the range---small water tankage and small fuel tankage---but also has larger sails and more difficult to make track---i like the formosa because she is a ketch and can track under mizzen and jib or forestaysail.....and has larger tankage and storage......what you decide to use is up to you and your needs----have fun and goood luck....btw---WATER makes a boat sink---LOTS of water--can come in from engine exhaust, faulty thruhulls, cracking in the hull-keel joint of a boat with open keel, shaft log leaking, packing gland failure,strut failure,...hitting an underwater object, being hit by another boat.faulty pumps ..many reasons---smooth sailing and have fun--
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Old 22-08-2009, 18:47   #25
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Well, that's a lot of information and I understand now why the "non-answers" were the correct answers.
It's a common question and now you start to see the answer. Simple questions are not always aswered in simple terms. Planning and preparation are paramount. You need to control the risks that you can control so it leaves the rest that you can't. You must accept risks that are beyond your control. It's called "doing the best you can". The boat can not manage risk. They don't build them smart just strong if you get a good one. Gords's numbers point to a lot of what I call the the "dumb stuff". Things you could have done before you left. It takes the planning and preparation to eliminate those things. So after you do all that is it the boat or all the planning and preparation? I doubt you can find anyone that did a lot of preparation that would say they wasted too much time.
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Old 22-08-2009, 20:29   #26
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As long as we are into insurance statistics, one very interesting one is 10 boats are lost to electrical fires for every one lost to other causes. Having worked for 19 years on people's boats I have seen some frightening electrical systems. And not a few boats which did have major electrical fires. Luckily in most cases there were enough fire extinguishers about to put out the fire - but what a mess afterwards. I keep a serious fire extinguisher mounted in each cabin and two in the
Galley and Engine Room.
- - Who/What sinks boats? Of the non-fire incidents high up on the lists is MSD's and folks who forget to turn off the flush supply valve.
- - I would also vote for serious neglect in maintenance practices which includes hoses, clamps, and non-functioning thru-hull seacocks. And who keeps the little wooden cone plugs tied to each thru-hull/seacock?
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Old 22-08-2009, 20:48   #27
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Exclamation Recently!

Only in the last 10 days I was working on my boat at her swing mooring and noticed every time I came on deck, the bilge pump of the adjacent sloop was putting out a stream of water.

When the tender picked me up, we had a quick look around and the coxswain alerted the marina manager. He told me later that they boarded her and inspected below. Sure enough, a seacock hadn't been adequately secured. She'd have sunk when the battery gave up the ghost!!

Put that one down to people/crew!

G'day
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Old 22-08-2009, 21:41   #28
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any boat is unsinkable...

until it isn't...

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Old 22-08-2009, 23:10   #29
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When the tender picked me up, we had a quick look around and the coxswain alerted the marina manager.
Nice work noticing
We gotta look after other folks boats too

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Old 22-08-2009, 23:16   #30
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Well, having just had a boat sink...
it was a small thing called electrolysis, that ate away metal atom by atom till the water came in... lucky it was at the dock.

Now that I am in the middle of the repair, and the engine is now out so most of the wiring that was previously unaccessable is now frightenly accessable...
its a wonder the boat did not catch fire a long time ago and then sink.

There are splices into battery cable that are covered with electrical tape, laying in the bilge... and so many mistakes on the wiring... makes my head spin.
Was going to rewire the boat anyway cause the wire was coroded, but not I just am grateful it is caught before something bad happened...

As far as off shore boats are concerned. Any boat can go off shore. In the right hands. And even the best offshore ruggedly built cruising boat in the wrong hands is just a accident waiting to happen.
One thing about the rise of the internet, is there are as many opinions as there are people all telling you what you should or shouldn't do, say, think, etc.
True there are boats that are built just for offshore sailing, and some that are built for coastal cruising and all in between. But either can be the right boat for going to burmuda or hawaii, but if the crew is not prepared, good luck.
bob
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