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Old 18-06-2009, 00:12   #16
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As soon as you look at the Mahina list you will start to do research on serious boats and their numbers for stability, comfort ratios, etc.

I've done a lot of work for you here in this editable spreadsheet.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...6MggGoOP2MEGZA

Take a look at the tabs at the bottom where you can learn about all the definitions and ratios that various designers have come up with over the years.

Ted Brewer is one great resource.
John Holtrop did some great analysis for Cruising World in 1998 and then did followup research reconfirming most of his original numbers.
He took data from various designers' optimal numbers and combined them into what he considered the best ranges for safe cruising boats.

Those are the numbers in red that I use on the spreadsheet to determine if a boat makes the cut.

Best of luck.

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Old 18-06-2009, 08:44   #17
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Ok...here's my re-phrase with my thoughts and expectations......

First, money is an issue, not a huge one, but I kind of like fixing light work up, adding my own touches, and tweaking things....for this reason I'm looking at boats in the 1975 to 1990 range of years. Boats that you can get fairly inexpensive, though "some" work may be needed to fix them up.

Cruising style and area. I like sailing, motoring also good, relaxing, long weekends or week or so on board. Mostly Chesapeake, but eventuall ICW, Florida Keys, and Bahamas.


Things I consider important:
  • Construction - Should be built well, strong hull, no real design issues.
  • Shallow Draft - Would prefer to be able to get into those 4-5 foot areas.
  • Spacious - good headroom, larger cockpit, good features in the cabin.
  • Capability - Should be able to handle chesapeake, coastal sailing, and crossing to bahamas (maybe bermuda??)
  • Stability - should be very stable...not prone to a lot of rocking and rolling in rougher water. Slower sailing is fine as long as the boat is more stable.
  • Sailing and Handleing - Should be decent sailing and handling...would consider stability and contruction a bit above this.
I think I would like something in the 30-34 foot range. 30-32 is preferred. Doubt I would ever sail to Bermuda, but it would be nice to know the boat would be failry capable of it. - Boats I have been looking at are Hunters (80's) Bristol, Morgan, Sabre, Pearson, Columbia, Erikson (70's and 80's) - if you know of a certain issue with any model or year please let me know. Also, any suggestions on what I should consider with regards to displacment, ballast, LWL that would match up with the above considerations.....

Thanks for all your advice and knowledge. I look forward to your ideas.....So....what would you get with regards to models, brand, lengths??
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Old 19-06-2009, 12:52   #18
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My only concern with your requirements are the conflict between shallow draft and stability/handling.
I've repeatedly heard that shoal-draft keel and other stub keel designs do compromise some on the handling/tracking and depending on ballast placement, stability as well.
I'm no expert just a thought.
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Old 19-06-2009, 13:51   #19
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Corkscrew,
to reiterate emagin's thoughts; shallow draft and handling are mostly incompatible in offshore vessels, you could go full keel something such as the west sail 32 perhaps, but it IS slow ( people who love them, love them) many many have been built, and they are a cruising ICON. they are not very large below.
If you are on the Chesapeake then buy a vessel good for the bay, any one of those will do the trip to the Keys with no issues. IF in the long run you wish to do some offshore sailing then buy a boat that is designed for that purpose when you decide to go offshore.
something like the Pearson 35 would make a nice bay-island boat, centerboard and not too expensive.
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Old 19-06-2009, 14:34   #20
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Check out Gregg Nestor's book "Twenty Affordable Sailboats To Take You Anywhere":
Amazon.com: Twenty Affordable Sailboats To Take You Anywhere: Gregg Nestor (foreword by John Vigor): Books

"From hundreds of candidates, Gregg Nestor has chosen 20 of the best cruising boats from the 1960s, '70s and '80s. Ranging from 30 to 38 feet, his criteria are spot-on: Seaworthy design and solid construction at an affordable price. Nestor tells you everything you need to know about all three, plus he adds comments from those who understand these boats intimately: the owners. This is the kind of book that makes the cruising dream come true." ---Dan Spur - Author, Spur's Guide to Upgrading Your Cruising Sailboat

Even if the boat you're considering is not among those 20, it will probably give you an idea what to look for.
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Old 19-06-2009, 15:29   #21
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The question of what makes a "bluewater cruiser" is one that comes up continuously, and I believe that the reason for this is that it has never been definitively defined. I would like to answer that question once and for all and put an end to the heretofore endless debate. In the book, "The History of the World According to Me" (not yet in print), the origin of the term is quite clear. Way back in the days that Wrigley chewing gum was being manufactured on Catalina Island, quality control inspectors noticed an "off" flavor to the chewing gum when the wind was from the East. After much troubleshooting, consulting of tea leaves, and the sacrifice of three chickens and a goat, it was determined that the "off" flavor was caused by an odor that was coming from raw sewage that the flotilla anchored off Avalon was pumping into the water. Frank "The Tank" Wrigley (don't ask) immediately banned the discharge of sewage overboard. He is reliably quoted to have said, "I am swimming in affluence, and I'll be damned if I have to swim in effluence!" The ban was ineffective until dye tablets were introduced into the heads of all vessels moored off of Avalon. The dye tablets were (you guessed it) BLUE! Any vessel with a head that could be pumped overboard was thenceforth known as "a bluewater vessel", hence, "bluewater sailboat". So if your boat only came with a porta-potty, sorry, it's simply not bluewater capable without extensive modifications.

I hope this entirely true story will put to rest any more questions regarding the qualifications for a bluewater sailboat.
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Old 19-06-2009, 17:45   #22
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Wow very informative, that puts you at the head of the class.
Sorry couldnt help myself.
Erika
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Old 19-06-2009, 19:10   #23
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You Funny!

David
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Old 19-06-2009, 23:27   #24
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Does anyone know the origin of the term "green water" as in, "Green water over the bow"?
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Old 20-06-2009, 12:34   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john540 View Post
Does anyone know the origin of the term "green water" as in, "Green water over the bow"?
Com'on John,

We are anxiously waiting for the story!...

Sailndive
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Old 20-06-2009, 12:49   #26
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Book Titles

Quote:
Originally Posted by john540 View Post
In the book, "The History of the World According to Me" (not yet in print), the origin of the term is quite clear.
You remind me of my favorite book title: Amazon.com: What Narcissism Means to Me: Poems: Tony Hoagland: Books
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Old 20-06-2009, 14:53   #27
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Does anyone know the origin of the term "green water" as in, "Green water over the bow"?
Maybe the sea is so darn envious of our beautiful boats that it wants to hop aboard?
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Old 20-06-2009, 15:00   #28
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Good one Ocean.

I was thinking that green water is the color of the water in many bays and estuaries, with their high phytoplankton count. If on a bay or estuarie and you stuff the bow and the water is still green and not relatively clear, you have one heck of a lot of water over your bow. That's just my wild guess.
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Old 20-06-2009, 16:24   #29
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Pearson

Seems to me that a 1972-82 Pearson 365 or 39 would be ideal. The 365 is a ketch and the 39 is a sloop or a yawl. Solid boats!
The 365 draws 4.5' and the 39 draws 4' 8" board up and 9' board down.
Perfect for the Chesapeake. My criteria has always been, "Can I get into Fairlee Creek"?
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Old 20-06-2009, 17:28   #30
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A bluewater boat is one that dosen't slam in heavy seas, dosen't broach in heavy following seas, tracks well without a lot of steering effort in following seas, can heave to in a storm, takes little water over the bow and what it does it sheds easily and if it gets very bad you gave go below and make a pot of coffee or tea and think about what to do next or sleep.
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