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Old 03-01-2013, 20:44   #121
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Maybe, but all boats bend and flex. And just how do you tell while a boat is bouncing around all over the place that it bending to start with?

Over the years here I've read lots of posters come on and start stories of so and so told them, or "once I was on a boat", with some bendy flexy story.

I've also read lots of people counter by saying they had owned said boat and theirs didn't do any of these things.

So I believe 90+% of these bendy flexy stories are internet urban legend BS. There may be 10% truth in there on some light duty small boat that was never intended for any type of real serious passage to begin with.

To date I have never read a story that went "I was a X boat out in the water during rough conditions and the boat was flexing and then BROKE apart!". If did didn't break apart during the flexing what is the issue?
A boat that is oil canning as it sails along in moderate conditions is not something that gives one confidence about taking that boat to sea..I would rather have a boat that didnt" bounce all over the place" rather ,one that cuts thru the water and mounting waves and not hobby horsing and pounding..That is what I consider essential for a "blue water boat "..that is what I like and is not the be all to end all,just what I like to see in a good sail boat for off shore work..
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Old 03-01-2013, 20:49   #122
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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How many do they put out per year? 10?
What would Island Packet put out? 100?
So say 200 boats per year compared to 4,000 Beneteaus per year, Jeanneau 4,000, 3,000 Bavarias, so just those come to 11,000 per year.
I would think that 85% of those IPs would be doing a lot more "Big Water sailing" ..
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Old 03-01-2013, 21:47   #123
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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BUT, I'm not really insterested in a cruiser that apparently sails around with the rail in water (check the photo for the 44, that looks comfortable)
The 44's a fin keel Don.
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Old 03-01-2013, 23:03   #124
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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post

You need to consider the whole line and it should be (at I met it to be) obvious that I was being sarcastic. To be clear that photo of the 44 doesn't make it look comfortable at all!

I did a thread once on why would a cruiser boat manufacturer advertise their boat sailing with the rail in water as cruisers aren't interested in life at 30 degrees.
Really?

That is when I start grinning.

As pictured is about all I can get my wife to participate in.

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Old 04-01-2013, 01:08   #125
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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I don't know why everyone thinks full keelers are more comfortable or more "sea kindly" as my opinion is they are not.
Steve Dashew describes in his books how each new boat he build had a shorter keel than the previous, and was more comfortable to boot. He also quite convincingly argues that a long keeled boat doesn't necessarily track better, but is harder to steer.
I see similar opinions voiced on Beth and Evans' website.
So here we have some very experienced cruisers, who ought to know a few things about blue water sailing. And see what they choose to sail on... (Ok, the Dashews have since moved to a stinkpot...)

But how different is manoeuvring a long keeler?
The only long keeler I've sailed on was a woorden Marco Polo (ages ago), and this one always moored alongside the warf. Mooring in Europe is however mostly either stern-to or bow-to. Is doing this with a long keeler only a matter of practice?
I'm asking this because I've just discovered another boat for sale that I like the looks of, and it's a long keeler...
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:07   #126
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Just looking at Beth Leonards website and she has a table of how much water comes inboard when a boat is holed.
http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Hole...odingtable.pdf

example a 2 inch hole 3 feet below the waterline will flood 139 gallons per minute.

Maybe an argument for flatbottomed fin keeled boats?

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Old 04-01-2013, 03:16   #127
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

So instead of sinking in 10min it takes 15... better to stay afloat IMO.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:38   #128
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

[QUOTE=K_V_B;1121351]I see similar opinions voiced on Beth and Evans' website.
So here we have some very experienced cruisers, who ought to know a few things about blue water sailing. /QUOTE]

you need to research your examples more so they match the position you are taking
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:42   #129
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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A boat that is oil canning as it sails along in moderate conditions is not something that gives one confidence about taking that boat to sea..

I wouldn't cconsider such a boat as good ............. period!
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:18   #130
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Never thought of comparing the boats of the 60s and 70s to the Apollo to the moon. Somewhat over the top.

Appollo was absolutely cutting edge technology at the time whilst those vessels were simply refinement of prior vessels.
The analogy isn't a bad one, actually. Even Knox-Johnston compared his circumnavigation to the Apollo missions (he was out there in 1968), reckoning that aside from those astronauts, he and the others in the '68 race were the most isolated people in the universe - more so, in some ways, because they were solo.

The point is that in those days the chances of outside rescue, especially in the southern hemisphere, were slim to none. So, like the Apollo astronauts, they were totally self-reliant.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:22   #131
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Being able to swim/dive can add a lot to a skipper being able to check a vessel's underwater profile, anchors etc. A highly useful adittional skill and cruising skippers need multiskilling.
Thats not to say non swimmers cannot get away with it.
As I said, it's a good skill to have, but I guess I should have said over-rated as a life-saving skill. Too many people think being able to swim is a substitute for a PFD.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:24   #132
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pirate Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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The analogy isn't a bad one, actually. Even Knox-Johnston compared his circumnavigation to the Apollo missions (he was out there in 1968), reckoning that aside from those astronauts, he and the others in the '68 race were the most isolated people in the universe - more so, in some ways, because they were solo.

The point is that in those days the chances of outside rescue, especially in the southern hemisphere, were slim to none. So, like the Apollo astronauts, they were totally self-reliant.
LOL.... and he used to dive of the bow and swim with the boat till the stern reached him... funny how perpectives change...
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:30   #133
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Do not have any issue with books written in the 80'ies. Plenty of valuable info in them.

I think older designs are very fine and especially the smaller ones. Newer, lighter, designs are fine too but I would ask for a (relatively) bigger one.

Do not like to be tossed about.

b.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:52   #134
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

[QUOTE=Don Lucas;1121399]
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
I see similar opinions voiced on Beth and Evans' website.
So here we have some very experienced cruisers, who ought to know a few things about blue water sailing. /QUOTE]

you need to research your examples more so they match the position you are taking
And yet, the Pardys - with something like (if I remember) 140K+ bluewater miles - more, I suspect than Beth and Evans - have taken an opposite tack. I am not sure it's that cut and dried.

Besides, you folks have produced a false dichotomy. It's not either fin keels or full keels, it is fin keels, keel and skeg (and there are lots of 'em), modified full keel (or cut-away forefoot) and full, full keel.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:15   #135
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

[QUOTE=sneuman;1121442]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Besides, you folks have produced a false dichotomy. It's not either fin keels or full keels, it is fin keels, keel and skeg (and there are lots of 'em), modified full keel (or cut-away forefoot) and full, full keel.
Plus there are short fin and long fin keels. Probably some in the middle too.
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