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Old 03-01-2013, 17:34   #106
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
If a boat "bends" or "flexes" in heavy weather, as are the reputations or even "nicknames" of some boat makes, shouldn't that boat be considerd not a bluewater boat?
Maybe, but all boats bend and flex. And just how do you tell while a boat is bouncing around all over the place that it bending to start with?

Over the years here I've read lots of posters come on and start stories of so and so told them, or "once I was on a boat", with some bendy flexy story.

I've also read lots of people counter by saying they had owned said boat and theirs didn't do any of these things.

So I believe 90+% of these bendy flexy stories are internet urban legend BS. There may be 10% truth in there on some light duty small boat that was never intended for any type of real serious passage to begin with.

To date I have never read a story that went "I was a X boat out in the water during rough conditions and the boat was flexing and then BROKE apart!". If did didn't break apart during the flexing what is the issue?
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Old 03-01-2013, 17:47   #107
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Flexing sure would make some interesting videos, eh?
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Old 03-01-2013, 17:59   #108
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

hard to tell though if what you are filming is bouncing around or whether it is the camera
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Old 03-01-2013, 18:15   #109
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Not everyone is Lord Nelson so they might want to choose a vessel more worthy than another is what I'm saying.
"Worthy" in your own opinion.
That's the point of the thread. Everyone has their own opinion and will not be swayed. Like other things its generational... For eaxample, As no more full keelers are being made there will be fewer and fewer at sea or on the market, certainly in percentage of all vessels.
Boats last decades and decades however in one decade the average age of those boats will be a discouragement for newer owners.
There just doesn't seem to be market preasure for those designs... Island Packet hasn't increased the size of their boats along with other builders, and, has even branched out into a fin keel boat the Blue Jacket. It seems they realize the market is quite mature.

It's like anything as it ages, there will be sentimental attachment, and people will sail them for ever, but as none are being made it can really only go one way....
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Old 03-01-2013, 18:17   #110
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
...

To date I have never read a story that went "I was a X boat out in the water during rough conditions and the boat was flexing and then BROKE apart!". If did didn't break apart during the flexing what is the issue?
Well, Don, here on CF there have been a number of folks who reported that bulkheads have jumped out of their slots, doors wouldn't open or close, drawers wouldn't slide, grid bonding has failed and various other negative aspects of flexing under load. These have been first hand owners reports and by professional boat repair persons.

So, for me the issue is that while the boat hasn't broken during that particular passage, it has inconvenienced the crew (what if it was the booze locker that was inoperable?) and would reasonably lead one to wonder what would happen in even worse weather, or after many further cycles of stress?

AS you say, all structures distort under load. The issue is how much and with what long term results. Aircraft, which are indeed designed to flex, are subject to frequent (by yottie standards) inspections to be sure that no ill effects are lurking. Few cruisers can or do make such inspections.

Cheers,

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Old 03-01-2013, 18:26   #111
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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(...) but as none are being made (...)
Rustler 36

Just one example.

But you are right there are fewer now than then.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 03-01-2013, 18:37   #112
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Rustler 36

Just one example.

But you are right there are fewer now than then.

Cheers,
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How many do they put out per year? 10?
What would Island Packet put out? 100?
So say 200 boats per year compared to 4,000 Beneteaus per year, Jeanneau 4,000, 3,000 Bavarias, so just those come to 11,000 per year.
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Old 03-01-2013, 18:39   #113
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Rustler 36

Just one example.

But you are right there are fewer now than then.

Cheers,
b.
need at least the 42, but really the 44 is the target

BUT, I'm not really insterested in a cruiser that apparently sails around with the rail in water (check the photo for the 44, that looks comfortable)
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Old 03-01-2013, 18:47   #114
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
How many do they put out per year? 10?
What would Island Packet put out? 100?
So say 200 boats per year compared to 4,000 Beneteaus per year, Jeanneau 4,000, 3,000 Bavarias, so just those come to 11,000 per year.
Does not matter. You said none, I say there are still long keel designs available for those who want one.

Rustler is just one example and they will make as many as you order.

To me, the keel configuration is not the determining factor. How the keel was designed and built seems far more important than whether it is long, short, fin, lifting or whatever.

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Old 03-01-2013, 18:50   #115
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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need at least the 42, but really the 44 is the target

BUT, I'm not really insterested in a cruiser that apparently sails around with the rail in water (check the photo for the 44, that looks comfortable)
Sorry but only their 36 is long.

I had a close up personal affair with the 42 just now. Cream.

If you like 42-44 and full then look at Dutch built Colin Archers, Koopmans, etc..

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Old 03-01-2013, 19:09   #116
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Quote:
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Some people in these type of threads always start referencing books written in the 80s about boats for the day and older. There never seems to be much credit given to designs that take advantage of advances in both design and building technology.

I wonder how many people believe the same holds true to everything else in the world? Should we buy old 1980s products over modern ones just because there is a book published way back by a writer from the day?
They just don't make em like they used to, does often hold true. Before you hit sears to buy a new ratchet, check the pawn shop to look for a 20 year old one made with better "Craftsman" ship.

Also, you think the tradesmen of today are turning out products like their grandfathers did? Rarely.

Gizmos is the only real advancement over the years. Stuff that is electronic and made by 12 cents a day slave labor. Just made this post on such a device. That technology was not imagined when fiberglass was first used in the construction of sailboats.
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Old 03-01-2013, 19:12   #117
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pirate Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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need at least the 42, but really the 44 is the target

BUT, I'm not really insterested in a cruiser that apparently sails around with the rail in water (check the photo for the 44, that looks comfortable)
Not sure what you're trying to say here, Don, but I think you meant to say that sailing with a rail in the water is uncomfortable. I was going to check with MarkJ but

As I look at the ad, I'd say they set up the shot to at least appear as though they're racing with units on high side. Kind of a dumb ad in my view for a real cruiser.

But anyway, is that a Delta anchor up there? Isn't that just a poor man's Rocna?
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Old 03-01-2013, 19:23   #118
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Not sure what you're trying to say here, Don, but I think you meant to say that sailing with a rail in the water is uncomfortable. I was going to check with MarkJ but

You need to consider the whole line and it should be (at I met it to be) obvious that I was being sarcastic. To be clear that photo of the 44 doesn't make it look comfortable at all!

I did a thread once on why would a cruiser boat manufacturer advertise their boat sailing with the rail in water as cruisers aren't interested in life at 30 degrees.
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Old 03-01-2013, 19:34   #119
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Notice those that want a full keel must disregard Swan and Oyster as being blue water boats. Hmmmmmm.
Both of these would be on my list.
I think you need to sail a lot of boats in a lot of conditions and make your own conclusion.
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Old 03-01-2013, 19:36   #120
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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... I did a thread once on why would a cruiser boat manufacturer advertise their boat sailing with the rail in water as cruisers aren't interested in life at 30 degrees.
Agreed. My personal limits are 25 degrees N to 25 degrees S.
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