Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-01-2013, 15:07   #91
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Salty hog,
You may have done a better job sailing.

If there were two boats side by side and you could switch in between then we might be able to make a case for one or the other.. But no one has done any research... Just pretend numbers plucked from the wind.

On the more important theme of your post is that each boat sails differently and in a storm it is down right desirable to know how to sail the boat one is on! I reef, reef, and reef again. I don't think the wind can rip a mast out if there's no sail up, so its a matter of putting a little sail up so you get somewhere but leave the mast intact.

But in storms people push a boat too hard.
How many times have you heard people say " we hit 14 knots!" Or 9 knots or 11 knots? But our boats CAN'T hit those speeds because they are above hull speed so the boat must be surfing down a wave above hull speed in a storm. That means the boat is unstable, a full keel, or fin doesn't matter, either is ripe for gear breakage, or worse.

The people who broke their mast in your post had too much sail up for their boat in those conditions and it was plucked out, or she ran out of control over hull speed broaching down a wave, "knocked down".

Remember what the earlier posters said... It's about the skipper. If a skipper takes it over hull speed he better know what he is doing.

My hull speed is 7.96 knots. When I hit 8 I reef. No matter what.

You guys just sailed your boat better.


Mark
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 15:07   #92
Registered User
 
Nessus's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 69
Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
What makes a boat bluewater capable? ........... the skipper!!
Sailors put a lot of stock in the "skipper" and rightly so; but this can be self ingratiating. How many 35,000# full keel boats have washed up or been found adrift in perfect condition long after the "skipper" abandoned ship. To say it's all skipper is misleading. It makes it sound like anyone who is good enough can take a 2500# trailer sailer and circumnavigate unmolested by the sea. Not so. There are vessels more adept at cruising offshore.

Would you take a 22' O'day around Cape Horn? To hear it told here; sure if the skipper is good enough. And while that skipper may have a fine passage he or she is pushing their luck.
__________________

__________________
Nessus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 15:10   #93
Registered User
 
Nessus's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 69
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
who drinks when actively sail cruising???
The entire English Navy
__________________
Nessus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 15:10   #94
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,202
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post

Remember what the earlier posters said... It's about the skipper. If a skipper takes it over hull speed he better know what he is doing.

My hull speed is 7.96 knots. When I hit 8 I reef. No matter what.

You guys just sailed your boat better.


Mark
Your brave... I do it at 7...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 15:19   #95
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Messrs Bligh and Flinders certainly bought out the 'Blue water Ability' of what we would all perceive to be doubtful boats.


Cheers
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 15:31   #96
Registered User
 
endoftheroad's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Key West
Boat: Westsail 32 and Herreshoff 28
Posts: 1,159
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nes View Post
Well if you could ask Joshua Slocum what makes a boat blue water capable, you would hear about the Spray, the boat that he successfully circumnavigated in (46,000 miles the way that he went). However, if you asked the experts later (after he disappeared), you would find that it was amazing that the boat did not kill him sooner as it would capsize at a fairly low amount of heel. He was the first to make the trip (1895-1898), and did not have a forum to ask advice on what made a blue water capable cruiser. Of course he did not have the modern convenience of electronic navigation equipment or for that matter even a good clock.
What I got from his accomplishment is a repeat statement from another on this forum, what makes a boat blue water capable, is THE SKIPPER.
His book (Joshua Slocum) makes for an interesting read "Sailing Alone Around The World"
What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable? Thanks Vasco!


See also Joshua Slocum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well said!

I read the book and the design of the "spray" makes me nervous but I'm not a well experienced Skipper.
__________________
endoftheroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 15:32   #97
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,310
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Your brave... I do it at 7...
That makes you even braver than Mark! My boat is twie the size of yours and I do it at 7 if there is indication the wind is building.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 15:34   #98
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,310
Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
Sailors put a lot of stock in the "skipper" and rightly so; but this can be self ingratiating. How many 35,000# full keel boats have washed up or been found adrift in perfect condition long after the "skipper" abandoned ship. To say it's all skipper is misleading. It makes it sound like anyone who is good enough can take a 2500# trailer sailer and circumnavigate unmolested by the sea. Not so. There are vessels more adept at cruising offshore.

Well that wasn't good skipper then!!!!

The 35,000# full keel boat is the one the purest say is the boat to have regardless of the skipper.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 16:05   #99
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kimberton PA
Boat: Cabo Rico 38 / Bayfield 32
Posts: 573
Images: 1
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Salty hog,
You may have done a better job sailing.

If there were two boats side by side and you could switch in between then we might be able to make a case for one or the other.. But no one has done any research... Just pretend numbers plucked from the wind.

On the more important theme of your post is that each boat sails differently and in a storm it is down right desirable to know how to sail the boat one is on! I reef, reef, and reef again. I don't think the wind can rip a mast out if there's no sail up, so its a matter of putting a little sail up so you get somewhere but leave the mast intact.

But in storms people push a boat too hard.
How many times have you heard people say " we hit 14 knots!" Or 9 knots or 11 knots? But our boats CAN'T hit those speeds because they are above hull speed so the boat must be surfing down a wave above hull speed in a storm. That means the boat is unstable, a full keel, or fin doesn't matter, either is ripe for gear breakage, or worse.

The people who broke their mast in your post had too much sail up for their boat in those conditions and it was plucked out, or she ran out of control over hull speed broaching down a wave, "knocked down".

Remember what the earlier posters said... It's about the skipper. If a skipper takes it over hull speed he better know what he is doing.

My hull speed is 7.96 knots. When I hit 8 I reef. No matter what.

You guys just sailed your boat better.


Mark
Perhaps. As I said, I can't take credit or blame for that. When things just started building, we had full sail and were moving pretty spritely. I'll say it was exhilarating to say the least. We were heeled pretty far and even I could tell things could go south in a hurry if we didn't reef soon. I'll also say that going forward to the mast to reef in those conditions increased the pucker factor a bit as I had never been sailing in anything like this. But again, as the boat was not violent in her motion, things were manageable. The motion was big, just not too violent. Every time we reefed, the boat stood up and we went faster. We never surfed as we were going upwind (of course). By the end we were under reefed staysail and triple reefed main only. Actually by the very end we were motoring directly into the wind and the outgoing tide from Port Royal Sound. The channel into Port Royal Sound is very long. We got in behind Hilton Head Island just at daybreak. I was happy to be on *that* boat rather than another. Whether it was the capt/crew, the boat, or a combination I can't say for sure. But the combination seemed to work. At this point it's the only recipe I have to start with. It was a great education and I'm still learning! That's what's great about sailing!
__________________
Saltyhog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 16:11   #100
Registered User
 
endoftheroad's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Key West
Boat: Westsail 32 and Herreshoff 28
Posts: 1,159
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

If a boat "bends" or "flexes" in heavy weather, as are the reputations or even "nicknames" of some boat makes, shouldn't that boat be considerd not a bluewater boat?
__________________
endoftheroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 16:44   #101
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,135
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
If a boat "bends" or "flexes" in heavy weather, as are the reputations or even "nicknames" of some boat makes, shouldn't that boat be considerd not a bluewater boat?
You've never heard the fable of the reed and the oak? As an aside, even large steel ocean vessels flex. The secret is to flex and not break.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 16:52   #102
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
You've never heard the fable of the reed and the oak? As an aside, even large steel ocean vessels flex. The secret is to flex and not break.
and also to be able to shut the doors and cupboards........

.....on both tacks. and afterwards.

and ideally all that also after a few years .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 16:59   #103
Registered User
 
Nessus's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 69
Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Well that wasn't good skipper then!!!!

The 35,000# full keel boat is the one the purest say is the boat to have regardless of the skipper.
Like I said many here take it all back to the skipper. There are some things the skipper can't do like add to the ballast to weight ratio
__________________
Nessus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 17:06   #104
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
Like I said many here take it all back to the skipper. There are some things the skipper can't do like add to the ballast to weight ratio
But a good skipper starts "skippering" before he sets sail - first look at the boat, then look at the intended passage and then decide whether to set forth. or even whether to get onboard!

A "no" can be the hardest decision to make, even if also the most prudent.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 17:15   #105
Registered User
 
Nessus's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 69
Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
But a good skipper starts "skippering" before he sets sail - first look at the boat, then look at the intended passage and then decide whether to set forth. or even whether to get onboard!

A "no" can be the hardest decision to make, even if also the most prudent.
Not everyone is Lord Nelson so they might want to choose a vessel more worthy than another is what I'm saying.
__________________

__________________
Nessus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas David_Old_Jersey Construction, Maintenance & Refit 529 02-06-2015 18:21
What is your Favorite Boat? cruiserbill Monohull Sailboats 43 09-04-2012 20:07
What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ? simonpickard Monohull Sailboats 86 15-11-2011 14:58



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.