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Old 02-01-2013, 13:07   #16
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
+1

The ideal boat paired with a bozo for a skipper is still a death trap. A less than ideal boat, properly maintained and sailed, is not such a bad thing. Most of the boats you see making serious passages are now flat bottomed, fin keeled, spade ruddered sleds that any "expert" will tell you is as far removed from a bluewater boat as a rubber duckie. When they don't make it, it is usually attributable to the person in charge. Rigging too light? Not the builder's fault. It is the skipper's fault as soon as he leaves the slip, because he should have changed it. Bad weather? Call it an act of God if you want, but the skipper could have avoided it, most likely. Heat exchanger hose busted and filled the boat up with water and sank her? Skipper's fault. He didn't check and replace old hoses. I could go on and on.

Yes, there are qualities to admire in a bluewater boat. Full keel, rudder on the keel or at least on a skeg, classic wineglass hull cross section, deck-stepped mast with appropriate spreaders and wires, compression post laterally supported by a bulkhead, sufficient tankage, both fuel and water, for extended voyaging, and I could go on. The hull, keel and rudder do not generally make for a really fast and nimble boat, but they make for a safe and comfortable one. Equipment like watermaker, HF/MF SSB, AIS, solar and wind charging, big battery bank, liferaft, epirb, SOLAS VHF, immersion suits, etc also contribute to a safe and practical blue water cruiser. The fewer compromises, the better.

True, not so many production boats really qualify any more. Builders are addressing the market. More buyers want something fast, that can tack quickly, and whip around the bouys in a race. Few actually need a real cruiser. So, not so many are built.
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Old 02-01-2013, 13:19   #17
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Originally Posted by sixdaytk View Post
............what are your top 5 minimums?
I'll give you my top five minimums even risking redundancy from past posts.

Number one is Vasco's answer in the first response to your question. This is not a "smart ass" answer. The choices made by the skipper are the most important factor by far.

Number two: Proper safety equipment,- harness, PFD's, fire extinguishers, communications, jackline, first aid kit,.......a long list

Number three: An uncompromised hull,- secure hull/deck joint, through-hulls/seacocks, keel structure

Number four: An uncompromised rig,- no cracked swedges, inspected shrouds, chainplates, spreaders, spars and sails

Number five: Proper stores,- tankage, water, food, spare parts, spare line, ground tackle

Huge amounts of varied details and opinions about these requirements are found in former posts and a huge variety in all these can make for an acceptable passage making vessel, but these five are essential and, once again, Vasco's answer about the skipper is number one!
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Old 02-01-2013, 13:31   #18
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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What makes a boat bluewater capable? ........... the skipper!!

Here Here !!

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Old 02-01-2013, 13:58   #19
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Originally Posted by sixdaytk View Post
Actually have read quite a bit on here about the subject and my questions have not been answered. All the post seem to be either smart ass answers, answers by morons, or fights about particular boats. Present company included.
Check out the OP profile and synopsis of previous posts. Just to get a handle on who's asking the question. When I did that several mins ago he was checking out how to unsubscribe from a thread. Guess he didn't like how this thread is developing.

Anyway.... I sense a cold brewskie a'calling.
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Old 02-01-2013, 14:05   #20
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?.....bluewater.
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Old 02-01-2013, 14:09   #21
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

A lot depends on your cruising grounds. Tropical cruising needs a well aired boat to keep it cool, so probably a catamaran. Cruising in Europe, you'd want a monohull because the marinas are so expensive. For long ocean passages heading in the same direction as the tradewinds, something stable is really nice, so probably a catamaran. For going into wind, you definitely want a monohull.

Which material? Most will get broken if you park your boat on the rocks or coral. So the skipper/captain's navigation ability counts more than the material that the boat is made from.

It's probably not the most sensible method, but think of it like you are buying a house; it should meet your minimum requirements eg three bedrooms, two bathrooms, kitchen and a bbq area.... and when you view it and it feels good, have it surveyed and then purchase it.
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Old 02-01-2013, 17:17   #22
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

A boat with a bridge deck,one that rights itself,a boat that you can go below decks on and batten all hatchs and stay(reasonable) comfortable,a hull that wont shatter like an egg shell if struck with a moderate force,must be able to cut thru waves and not pound like a hammer,well balanced,must be able to sail its self, must have a confident skipper..Bluewater boat?
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Old 02-01-2013, 17:28   #23
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Originally Posted by sixdaytk View Post
I(...) what are your top 5 minimums?
Sixday,

I think you have to make a couple of crossings and that's possibly one of good ways to get your own opinion on what makes a "bluewater" boat. If you use the search function on the CF, you will find many threads that discuss (often fiercely) this subject.

However, since you asked, below you are getting my 'top 5' (please note I do NOT order them):

*) Hull - of adequate design and built, of adequate size, with attachments (keel, rudder) of adequate design and built, it is essential that the hull, keel and rudder be designed and built to withstand extensive rather than occasional use, they should also allow for some ab-use (e.g. a grounding), there is no one configuration to rule them all but possibly long keel boats with well designed rudders are easier on small crews when continuous steering may be involved, fin keels and fine foil rudders are good too but they may require more attention, skill and stamina from the crew (remember to factor in occasional complete exhaustion of the possibly small crew),

*) Rigging - designed and built for the job at hand, hull design dictates the size of the rig and they both affect the sailing ability of the whole boat, some set-ups are better for extended downwind routes than others while others may be better choice for upwind work, taller rigs seem to fare better to windward but they ask for kites to deliver downwind, shorter rig may be a finer choice for a sedative downwind cruising - main all out and the jib poled out, the rigging should be VERY WELL ATTACHED to the hull - all fittings should be of adequate size, err on the overbuilt side, if uncertain, keep the rig simple - easy to tune and fix, some over-supply of stays may pay (double forestays&backstays, continuous shrouds, etc..), the mast can be stepped either way,

*) Tankage - the boat should be able to easily carry enough water (and diesel, if she has an engine) to last the voyage.

*) Storage - the boat should be able to easily carry enough supplies (food, sails, parts, crews' gear, anchors and rods, warps, nav&books, electrics, electronics, cooking devices, safety&emergency equipment, etc.,etc.,etc.,

*) Seaworthiness and sailing ability - the boat should be designed to take minor mishaps (say a knock-down) in her stride, the trade-off between sturdiness/stability and sailability, if present, should be kept at acceptable minimum - one day the boat may be asked to take on bad seas but on another day her ability to sail well (e.g. in very light winds or else beating to windward in a gale) may be the factor that will decide of the crew's comfort or safety, IMHO best ocean going sailboats are both safe and fast (when asked),

Well, well. So this is my two cents for you. There could be more of it, but you gave us only 5 ticks.

Sail then read then sail more and read more and you will find.

Fair winds,
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Old 02-01-2013, 17:47   #24
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

The Skipper would definitely be the most appropriate answer and Good Fortune a close second given the wide range of very unsuitable boats (in the opinion of the experts) that have successfully sailed, rowed or drifted the Oceans Blue..

Remembering it's often the muddy water that brings them to grief!

Cheers good to see the posts are more orientated towards strength rather than design.

Cheers
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Old 02-01-2013, 18:02   #25
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdaytk View Post
Actually have read quite a bit on here about the subject and my questions have not been answered. All the post seem to be either smart ass answers, answers by morons, or fights about particular boats. Present company included.
Regarding my post that preceded your above comment, I can assure you that my intent was not to be a smart ass. Also, the only boat that I trashed was my own - so no fight either. Guess that makes me a moron.
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Able to withstand large waves (solid water, not spray) coming from any direction and not break (clarification:break the boat) in such a way that will sink boat.

In my opinion, the lightly constructed pilothouse that I designed and built for my boat does not meet the above spec. Many people would have a different opinion and say, for example, that modern weather reporting greatly diminishes the need to survive extreme weather at sea.

Maybe I am paranoid. Maybe others are fools.

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Old 02-01-2013, 18:42   #26
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

I believe these are your questions:-
1) What features or minimums would you expect to find on a bluewater boat? Enough of everything to allow self sufficiency covering twice the timeframe for any voyage planned.

2) Hull thickness or method of construction? Totally depends on chosen design and that's a very personal decision.

3) Rigging type or gauge? Once again totally depends on your choice of boat.

4) Mast stepping method? Matters not in the least. Design once again.

5) Keel type or attachment method etc etc There are not enough pages here, but once again it comes back to what tickles your fancy with regard to general design ie how does any one here know what style of boat you like? Farr, Herreschoff, Beneteau or William Garden. You need to look at your area of cruising, your style of sailing your abilities and your expectations.

6) What are your top 5 minimums?

1) Comfort. Most time is spent at anchor however comfort under sail including least amount of exposure to elements is vitally important.
2) High standard of maintenance. Previous and present.
3) Speed. Both under power and sail.
4) Communication. ie Weather info. Radios etc
5) Layout. All systems need to be logical, all sheets at hand, wiring neat, plumbing likewise etc It's critical to understand and be able to troubleshoot as much as possible.

You must have designs in mind and i doubt that you don't have pre-conceived minimums of your own far better to list your ideas for comment i think you'll get a better result.

There are many great answers preceding my post.

Cheers
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Old 02-01-2013, 18:42   #27
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

I would not go offshore in a poorly built, poorly equipped boat. This has nothing to do with keel type or old vs new. It has to do with quality. But if you want to go offshore in a piece of crap, be my guest. Just don't ask me to go with you.

Sure, an experienced skipper can compensate for a crappy boat, but only to a point.
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Old 02-01-2013, 18:49   #28
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Originally Posted by sixdaytk View Post
Actually have read quite a bit on here about the subject and my questions have not been answered. All the post seem to be either smart ass answers, answers by morons, or fights about particular boats. Present company included.
1) Skipper / Crew having a sense of humour .
2) Skipper knowing ass from elbow (about boats and sailing).
3) Boat in seaworthy condition.
4) Adequate storage - and when filled boat still somewhere near designed waterline .
5) Bucket(s) onboard.

Or as Don would say: A Hunter .
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Old 02-01-2013, 18:55   #29
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Originally Posted by sixdaytk View Post
Actually have read quite a bit on here about the subject and my questions have not been answered. All the post seem to be either smart ass answers, answers by morons, or fights about particular boats. Present company included.
???

Mate,

How can you tell a moron from an experienced sailor while you cannot tell a seaworthy boat from a not seaworthy one?

Cheers,
b.
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Old 02-01-2013, 19:05   #30
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Re: What makes a boat "Bluewater" capable?

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Originally Posted by svmariane View Post
Check out the OP profile and synopsis of previous posts. Just to get a handle on who's asking the question. When I did that several mins ago he was checking out how to unsubscribe from a thread. Guess he didn't like how this thread is developing.

Anyway.... I sense a cold brewskie a'calling.
The answers were lacking hostility, i guess he wanted to start the year off with a 300 post blue, just never worked out for him!

A brew ... BEST idea i've heard this year!

Cheers
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