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Old 05-01-2013, 18:43   #226
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Thanks.....
Because my quest for knowlege is un-biassed.

Heck, I'd even give up my wife if I had knowlege of a better one.

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Old 05-01-2013, 19:00   #227
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Thanks.....
Because my quest for knowlege is un-biassed.

Heck, I'd even give up my wife if I had knowlege of a better one.


Well just like in boat threads we are going to need more details: age, weight, condition, model, your budget, before we can hope to help you.



I'm sorry just couldn't help it!
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Old 05-01-2013, 19:07   #228
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Thats my point ,if you have got to do all those things to it just to fill safe then perhaps it was not meant to be a world cruser from the factory...If you change anything on an airplane it has got to have a new "type certification" and then it is no longer what it was ie ,Piper Cub and you change the engine from 65 hp to say a 0-200(100 hp) then you change the shape of the rudder to allow better handling with the more powerful engine you now do not have a Piper Cub...
You're probably right, when Pearson introduced the Triton, which was the first production fiberglass boat sold in the US, they probably didn't think people would buy them to sail around the world. But the Triton has a narrow beam and a full keel and the hull is almost indestructible. Rigging, deck hardware, etc... Can be changed on any boat. Baldwin found a boat that met his requirements and did what he felt he needed to do to accomplish his goal. I believe his first circumnavigation was done without an engine. At some point he added an outboard. I doubt most people would consider a boat without an engine, or with an outboard only, a "blue water" boat. Pretty good example of why it's the skipper that matters most.
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Old 05-01-2013, 20:04   #229
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It's only the skipper if everything holds together and skipper doesn't go mayday.. Think compiling event at point of major f up.So the deck seems are opening which means crap is wet. Now your cold and not encouraged by the drip and uncertainty.. The pedestal is working loose and there is slop in the helm. The ap if it worked could not handle the **** that is tossing you. Your way tired and now their is a cabinet door slamming loose down below. **** is all over in the cabin. Drenched you are. Running the motor isnt good at these angles. then you need it and it wont work. you toss out your para anchor hoping your cleats hold. The furler line is hung up and there is a tad of jib exposed flapping shredding. At what point did the boat fail. At what point did you fail?
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Old 05-01-2013, 20:18   #230
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Isn't it true that a heavier boat can carry more stores percentage wise to its displacement and sail better than a lighter boat with same percentage of added weight to its displacement?

Probably I don't know how to say this.

10,000 boat with 2,000 (20%) pounds stores.
20,000 boat with 4,000 (20%) pounds stores.

Isn't the 10,000 pound displacement boat going to loose a GREATER percentage of SAILING EFFIENCY carrying the same percentage of load per its displacement?

If so, then a HEAVY displacement boat is a better bluewater boat.
The lighter the boat, the chances are more that it is designed per race criteria which would normally be designed.to support crew under maxum race conditions. In our case, our boat would support 8 to 11 people under full race conditions designed.
So that would be adding average at 200 each, so 1600 to2000 lbs just to put it into race mode. The down side, crew is movable balast where stores are not....
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Old 05-01-2013, 20:36   #231
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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PS - who is to even say what the displacement/weight number is based on for most boats? In the old days I bet none were designed for a X displacement, it was just what resulted. It has always confounded me that an old boat with large overhangs and narrow beam could be displacing more water that a boat with a plum bow and flat stern that has 2' more beam for a given overall length. With full tanks, 400# of anchor/chain, my fat ass, and guests my boat is still floating 4" from its' designed waterlin, I not too worried about the weight of ships' stores.
Don, I'm confused:

What is missing from your boat?... must be something very heavy if with all that stuff you mentioned she is still 4 inches above her design WL.

Seems that she should be ON her DWL at some normal and nominal loading, like maybe half tanks etc.

Have you looked to see if the keel is still attached??

(Mostly just kidding, but not entirely...)

Jim
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Old 05-01-2013, 20:59   #232
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Don,

Probably old days they spent much more time on weight and displacement. See skeins elements of yacht design. Could be a good read for a few that have it all figured out.
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Old 05-01-2013, 21:32   #233
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Don, I don't see how critique of your boat and the people that made it makes it unseaworthy. Heck, I wish I had heard some criticism of the old Valiant 40's or even of boats designed in the 60's and 70's, to know that I needed to be careful of the mainsail volume on downwind runs. Seahag set me straight, but only after I had broken alot bones to see her point. I welcome criticism on land, it helps me when things go to heck out there...
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Old 05-01-2013, 22:38   #234
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

New, old, big, small, heavy and light.......even a Cat!

Add booze + opinions, surely a recipe for disaster....

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Old 06-01-2013, 06:35   #235
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Isn't it true that a heavier boat can carry more stores percentage wise to its displacement and sail better than a lighter boat with same percentage of added weight to its displacement?

Probably I don't know how to say this.

10,000 boat with 2,000 (20%) pounds stores.
20,000 boat with 4,000 (20%) pounds stores.

Isn't the 10,000 pound displacement boat going to loose a GREATER percentage of SAILING EFFIENCY carrying the same percentage of load per its displacement?

If so, then a HEAVY displacement boat is a better bluewater boat.



I used those displacement examples for ease of math (I'm challenged) and not because of my own W32's displacement. As I mentioned already, my quest for knowlege is un-biassed.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:36   #236
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Don, I'm confused:

What is missing from your boat?... must be something very heavy if with all that stuff you mentioned she is still 4 inches above her design WL.

Seems that she should be ON her DWL at some normal and nominal loading, like maybe half tanks etc.

Have you looked to see if the keel is still attached??

(Mostly just kidding, but not entirely...)

Jim

Maybe it resulted when I cut the bulb off the keel to reduce the draft!

The boat is rated I think for 10 people. Maybe I'll have to go find some extra bodies and find out what happens. Then again there is a lot of empty storage currently so maybe it is time to load them all up with beer!

PS - I'm not a boat designer and over the years I've long accepted that it is crazy for me to try to second guess the ones who are.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:09   #237
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Are you measuring it correctly?

My anti fouling is about 4 inches higher than normal. That may make me look like I am riding high.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:52   #238
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Quote:
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The lighter the boat, the chances are more that it is designed per race criteria which would normally be designed.to support crew under maxum race conditions. In our case, our boat would support 8 to 11 people under full race conditions designed.
So that would be adding average at 200 each, so 1600 to2000 lbs just to put it into race mode. The down side, crew is movable balast where stores are not....
Be sure to keep your crew below the waterline.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:01   #239
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
[your argument here] (...) then a HEAVY displacement boat is a better bluewater boat.
Heavy vs. light is not what makes the better bluewater boat.

Westsail is heavy and is a good bluewater boat. Pogo is light and is a good bluewater boat.

b.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:33   #240
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Heavy vs. light is not what makes the better bluewater boat.

Westsail is heavy and is a good bluewater boat. Pogo is light and is a good bluewater boat.

b.
Once again, I'm not referring anything about a Westsail.

I dont know what a Pogo is, but can it carry the weight for long distance and still sail?
Or does it take catching fish and rainwater to be floating along side icebergs?
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