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Old 05-01-2013, 07:16   #181
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pirate Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Another thing to remember is that there's more than one type of sailor/seaman on here...
MarkJ is a good representive for the large production boats... he's been out and done it.. in comfort by his standards..
Then there's the folk who prefer the heavier built traditional craft... but once again the larger type.
Myself I'm a small boat sailor except for when I'm occassionally flush..
I've sailed 50+ footers and not been comfortable and 21 footers and been snug as a bug in a rug...
There are quite a few good small boats out there well capable of doing what Mark and others have done in their much larger boats... sadly though when folk come on here with limited funds and a dream they're told its unfeasable with less than 35ft and +$? more than they have.
The true ability to 'Blue Water' a boat is down to you.. no matter the size.. How long can you stand being out of sight of land.. How disciplined are you with a food/water regime.. Can you live just for the moment.. if you think to much go big.. you'll be a nervous wreck after the first leg....
Sorry Noelex.. just defending my corner..
PS: I move the boats owners and many YM's consider 'Not Blue Water'...
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:34   #182
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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PS: I move the boats owners and many YM's consider 'Not Blue Water'...
and the boats that are - but the owners aren't (and have the good sense to realise that).
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:42   #183
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and the boats that are - but the owners aren't (and have the good sense to realize that).
Ahhh... there's been those that are both able... but being upstanding citizens gets in the way...
Jobs, kids, mortgages.. man its enough to make one run away to sea... which I happily do...
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:52   #184
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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and the boats that are - but the owners aren't (and have the good sense to realise that).
Upon reflection, that might sound a bit negative / harsh , but not meant to be - IMO actually realising that something would be more than they could chew (or simply want to!) makes someone a good Skipper .

A "no" can be the hardest decision to make - especially when wrapped up in (confused with?) "I want to".

Not to say that the ignorance is bliss approach and / or sheer bloody mindedness don't also get folks a long way - but those approaches do not have magic powers, even if in practice often sufficient (coming back to the boats ain't rocket science thing!). Well, more often than not.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:06   #185
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A multi is one answer to the motion comfort thing, but it's also a fact that a heavier monohull (or at least a heavier ballasted one) is less prone to excessive motion than a heavier one. That's not opinion, that's physics.
Should have said "less prone ... Than a lighter one."
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:27   #186
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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I guess you read Zilt Magazine?
I do. And you're right, it was first Dutchman to sail round the world non stop.

Reading yachting magazines in four different languages does make one aware of the different yachting cultures that exist...
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:33   #187
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Well, a lot of this discussion is ungrounded from reality. Even if I preferred a newish, slick-hulled Beneteau, I simply cannot afford one - unless I want to put off cruising for another decade. As for a multihull, I can say that with 3x the certainty. So, we go with what we've got (or can afford).

That doesn't open the argument up completely, not for me. I definitely believe there are some boats that fall outside the parameters of "bluewater capable" (or whatever you choose to call it). It's about the skipper, yes, but it's also about the boat. Some boats will prove more trouble to maintain than others and in far off ports, that could cost you big bucks in the long run.

Beyond that, I think it's a sliding scale of comfort/speed vs. cost. My boat is comfortable from a motion standpoint (less so from a creature standpoint, though having lived aboard her for six years now I think I have come to peace with those limitations). She's not the fastest, no, but I think a lot of the "fast crowd" would underestimate her. I am good at sail trim and with a bit of effort, I have no trouble keeping up with (or passing) the more "modern" designs. (Don't believe me? I think I passed you in the bay last summer). I don't point as well no, but we hold our own. It's like Lin and Larry say, keep the bottom clean and big sails up and the older boats do just fine in light air. In heavier air, the differences diminish rapidly, as I can probably carry more sail than lighter displacement boats. At a certain point, it just becomes a "square root of waterline" issue.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:36   #188
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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A multi is one answer to the motion comfort thing, but it's also a fact that a heavier monohull (or at least a heavier ballasted one) is less prone to excessive motion than a heavier one. That's not opinion, that's physics.
That all depends on the weight distribution. The moment of inertia does not solely depend on weight. That is indeed physics.

A light boat with all the heavy stuff centred will have an easier movement than a heavy boat with a lot of weight in the ends...
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:37   #189
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pirate Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Another thing to remember is that there's more than one type of sailor/seaman on here...

The true ability to 'Blue Water' a boat is down to you.. no matter the size.. How long can you stand being out of sight of land.. How disciplined are you with a food/water regime.. Can you live just for the moment..
The real beauty of this simplified approach is that most can answer these questions right now without spending a nickle, or buying a bigger boat. If you're a long distance cruiser type, the vessel isn't the key.

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Old 05-01-2013, 08:39   #190
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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I think it takes another thread?

Anyways, you asked, I answer: ours is not.

Now what?

b.
From the original post: "But what actually makes a boat safer for bluewater or passagemaking?"

I believe that analyzing known weakness in a boat is a fine way to answer the above question. Many months ago, Boatman61 described a route change on his delivery job. He wanted to avoid the southern ocean because the boat he was skippering was top heavy. He wrote: "boats just a tad to top heavy for my liking for the Southern Ocean..." I found this account very interesting.

Perhaps I should have asked that people also indicate why they think that their boat is not blue water capable.

Steve
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:47   #191
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

I keep hearing about this "motion comfort" in heavy weights compared to light weight boats both under sail and at anchor, and it might be true in some conditions but what boats are we speaking of.
Because most of the boats, being production boats , are not designed for all out racing so weight is not a designedfactor and fall into a middle weight boat.
I can see comparing a Melges to a cape dory or a Hans to a J 24, but that's to the extreme. The Beneteau , unless its a new first below 30 feet is not a light weight boat.
And at anchor, this crap about being more comfy at anchor, if thats true, why is it that the gatheringpoint for dinner or drinks happens to be the new production boat with the walk thru transom and double wheels.
Fact is, most new production boats fall into a middle weight class, not heavy, and not light, but right where it should.be......
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:49   #192
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Well, a lot of this discussion is ungrounded from reality. Even if I preferred a newish, slick-hulled Beneteau, I simply cannot afford one - unless I want to put off cruising for another decade. ... So, we go with what we've got (or can afford).
I would bet this is a lot bigger part of the start of people's positions than what gets admitted to!

I never even really considered "whether it is bluewater" in either of the boats I have bought. I just wanted a good boat, which has a lot of factors.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:56   #193
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

If you have got to change the Rigging ,chainplates,beef up the rudder,change the running rigging,put in extra water tanks ,fuel tanks,better sails, etc you might not a have a blue water boat..
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:10   #194
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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If you have got to change the Rigging ,chainplates,beef up the rudder,change the running rigging,put in extra water tanks ,fuel tanks,better sails, etc you might not a have a blue water boat..
Wouldn't go that far.... In the process of building larger water tanks and our fuel is only 45. Gal but our boat is definetly a blue water boat.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:21   #195
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I would very much like to hear from more people who think that their own boat is not blue water capable.

I think I am the only one so far (See post #8).

Steve
My Clipper Marine 32 cc aft cabin ketch was marginal blue water, sold more as a coastal cruiser racer. Many owners used them for blue water, but I would not take a 1,750 pound keel sailboat outside the safety of current forecasts and calm seas.

As a captain, I would not have any business taking ANY sailboat into blue water, as I have zero big water experience.
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