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Old 04-01-2013, 06:51   #136
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

I didn't post that quote, not that it isn't true.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:51   #137
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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I've read many posts saying that production boats can't hack bluewater sailing, and that "this boat is better than that boat". But what actually makes a boat safer for bluewater or passagemaking? ...
I think the fundamental problem with this perennial question is that there is no widely accepted definition of what "Bluewater" actually means. Thus you have lots of different people answering the question from their subjective perspective of the definition of "bluewater". For some, that is anything out of sight of land. For others, it's a trans-oceanic crossing.

What's your definition of "bluewater"?
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:20   #138
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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I've read many posts saying that production boats can't hack bluewater sailing, and that "this boat is better than that boat". But what actually makes a boat safer for bluewater or passagemaking? ...
Anyone who attaches any serious consideration to that quote hasnt sailed on any of them.

Dave
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:30   #139
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Perhaps I am 'definitionally challenged' but don't all but a handful of us sail on production boats? Unless we're talking about a one-off custom (or two- or three-off ...), most all of our boats popped off out of a mold, no?
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:56   #140
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Perhaps I am 'definitionally challenged' but don't all but a handful of us sail on production boats? Unless we're talking about a one-off custom (or two- or three-off ...), most all of our boats popped off out of a mold, no?


there is a difference, quite large, actually, between boats popped out of a mold in low numbers and those popped out of a mold in very large quantity.
production means large quantity, mass production style.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:02   #141
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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Perhaps I am 'definitionally challenged' but don't all but a handful of us sail on production boats? Unless we're talking about a one-off custom (or two- or three-off ...), most all of our boats popped off out of a mold, no?
Yes they are all from a production line now except a very few like, I think it was a Hinkley 46 I was reading about... Costs $2.2 Million.
A Beneateau 46 costs about $300,000

So very few can afford a custom job.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:27   #142
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

I would very much like to hear from more people who think that their own boat is not blue water capable.

I think I am the only one so far (See post #8).

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Old 04-01-2013, 11:30   #143
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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there is a difference, quite large, actually, between boats popped out of a mold in low numbers and those popped out of a mold in very large quantity.
production means large quantity, mass production style.
So, I sail a Tayana 37, 650+ which have been made from about 1975-present (although the "line" has been silent since about the mid-90s). Would you consider that a production boat? I would.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:46   #144
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

Not certain whether 'oil canning' is representative of normal hull flexing or rather a sign of lightly built vessels not suitable for 'bluewater' cruising.
I've worked aboard wooden fishing vessels (over 70 feet) and there was a fair amount of hull flex in both ribs and planks when travelling in a seaway fully loaded that remained sound and seaworthy year after year. Contrast that with a VLCC tanker built to extreme standards to take on virtually any sea where you can see the hull flex longitudinally from the bridge loaded with several 100K barrels of crude.
I've only experienced 'oilcanning' on production boats, both power and sail, neither of which I would venture outside in... definitely not 'bluewater' material! Not to say that all production boats are built to these lower standards. Phil
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:47   #145
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

I think more modern boat makes fall into the production boat category, today they happen to be fin keelers. I think Tayana 37's and the Westsail 32 were once production boats and still would be under production if it made economical sense. Of course, fin keeler advocates suggest that its out of date sailboat designs. And full keelers suggest that fin keelers are blinded by marketing strategies due to production costs of a full keeled boat.
Probably alot of truth to both sides but I'm not taking a chance with my life and my family's life and remain conservative to time tested designs.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:54   #146
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

oil canning is a product of too few bulkheads in places much needed for structure.

i think 650 total boats produced is NOT a production boat. 500 boats since 1975 couyld well be production boats.

taiwanese boats are not quite production boats, as they are not assembly line produced as are many of the current marques.
yorktown wasnt a production boat despite their short term assembly line manufacturing system in the mid 70s
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:59   #147
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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LOL.... and he used to dive of the bow and swim with the boat till the stern reached him... funny how perpectives change...
That was just EVA ("extra-vehicular activity") for him!
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:24   #148
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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I would very much like to hear from more people who think that their own boat is not blue water capable.

Steve
There was a guy in another thread asking if a 27 footer was "Bluewater"
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Old 04-01-2013, 13:12   #149
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

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There was a guy in another thread asking if a 27 footer was "Bluewater"
a Catalina 27 has cicumnavigated ...................as well as a couple Contessa 26s and Robin Lee Graham sailed 3/4 the way around on his 24' .................ah...........humm? Lapworth.
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Old 04-01-2013, 13:16   #150
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Re: What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

catalina 27 named my sweet lord circumnavigated in 1990 or so..returned to lost angeles harbor intact, or apparently so.
i would rather circumnavigate in a lapworth 24 than a catalina 27, and i wont sail uphill in one of those again....much toooo wet a ride...good boat, tho...

my formosa will be again blue water capable after i repair the motor mounts and such items if insignificance.....
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