Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-11-2011, 04:20   #61
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,312
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

A "blue water boat" is a boat that some people can own to allow them to be smug and condenscending towards others.
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 04:54   #62
cruiser

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brisbane AUS
Boat: Cowther 43 - Hunter 40.5
Posts: 1,006
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
A "blue water boat" is a boat that some people can own to allow them to be smug and condenscending towards others.
Being in a small cramped space with no ventilation or lighting while traveling at 4K will make some people bitter.
__________________

__________________
dennisail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 05:31   #63
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisail View Post
Being in a small cramped space with no ventilation or lighting while traveling at 4K will make some people bitter.
ROFL
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 06:38   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 774
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

The skipper.
__________________

Seahunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 07:04   #65
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 3,157
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

A washer/dryer. I thought we all agreed on this earlier. BOB
__________________
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 07:12   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 774
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

LOL, yes but if the skipper doesn't know how to load the machine you just have to stay tied up in the marina.
__________________

Seahunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 07:28   #67
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: What makes a boat blue water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
It seems like if you have to ask the general bluewater boat question then you aren't ready for bluewater sailing...Kind of a Catch-22.

There's only about 1000 dimensions to the answer.

He didn't say that his dream was to sail around the world IMMEDIATELY. It sounded to me as if he wants to buy the right boat so he can do that some day. Surely he will learn how to sail first.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 07:34   #68
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: What makes a boat blue water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
After 23 years in the USCG I was amazed at how many boaters needed rescuing because they took the advice "that you really don't need much experience"...

But then again... you know how many "experienced" boaters get saved every year????

So in one aspect you are correct...THINKING you are experienced isn't really a good answer either...

I totally agree that anyone asking the basics of whether a boat is capable isn't CLOSE to being ready. THOSE of us in the know understand that almost ANY boat can be made ready or ...but you have to start with a skipper that knows that.

The thing is, no matter how experienced you are, you're only experienced at what you're experienced in. You get caught by an experience you have no prior ... well ... experience for, and you're going to have to rely on your wits, your common sense, and what you've heard and read.

A de-masting comes to mind immediately. I just saw a video of a team who deliberately de-masted a boat in an experiment to try to determine how it would happen under certain circumstances.

They were experienced. They still really had their hands full. They were able to break the mast on command, but dealing with the aftermath presented challenges they hadn't faced before.

Sailing is inherently dangerous. But so is snow-skiing, and riding a motorcycle, and eating some forms of sushi. You can't be 100% safe. Staying home won't do it; "they" say that most injuries happen in the home.

So pick your poison, learn all you can (and don't stop that), and take your chances.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 07:41   #69
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

Quote:
The thing is, no matter how experienced you are, you're only experienced at what you're experienced in. You get caught by an experience you have no prior ... well ... experience for, and you're going to have to rely on your wits, your common sense, and what you've heard and read.
yes Donald, ..... my heads spinning
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 13:01   #70
ABK
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Suburban Philadelphia, PA
Boat: Hunter, H26, 26 feet
Posts: 9
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

My Thoughts? What they are worth? Well, I was a powerboat owner and jumped into sailing about 5 years ago. I bought a old Macgregor and the book Sailing for Dummies.

The marine experience I already had for 40 plus years was a good basis to build on. The book had great information and I was sailing in a matter of minutes.

4 Years on a River and I was ready to coastal cruise. I put her in Atlantic City and had a great time last year. No real problems either.

But knowledge of the weather and ocean conditions were a big plus.

This summer I chartered a Jeanneau 39 on the Chesapeake and it was also great.

What am I getting at? It took me 5 years to get the experience I felt i needed to do what I did.

As for an oceanic voyage now? Not ready... I would think you would have to be out of your mind to just sail away. Life is too short and doing just that may make it even shorter.

Everything including sailing has a learning curve and the curve is never ending in my humble opinion.

The picture of anyone in heavy seas and weather with little experience is frightening.

Spend at least a few weeks sailing before trying to conquer the "Blue Water"...
Maybe a little longer (tongue in cheek) would be advisable.

IMHO...

ABK

Bruce
__________________
ABK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 13:49   #71
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
yes Donald, ..... my heads spinning

" The thing is, no matter how experienced you are, you're only experienced at what you're experienced in. You get caught by an experience you have no prior ... well ... experience for, and you're going to have to rely on your wits, your common sense, and what you've heard and read.

yes Donald, ..... my heads spinning "

What does that mean?

Remember the four football players who took an inadequate boat out into the Gulf of Mexico without checking the weather? Then they anchored badly from the stern, couldn't get the anchor up, didn't want to cut the rode, and flipped the boat. They were out way too far for the boat they were on, and they didn't have an EPIRB.

Three out of the four drowned.

They were "experienced." What that really meant is that they'd been reckless before but got away with it.

The front that flipped their boat had been forecast for days. We all knew it was going to be bad, and no one from my sailing club went out that day. But they did, and based on their "experience" thought they were safe.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 13:52   #72
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABK View Post
My Thoughts? What they are worth? Well, I was a powerboat owner and jumped into sailing about 5 years ago. I bought a old Macgregor and the book Sailing for Dummies.

The marine experience I already had for 40 plus years was a good basis to build on. The book had great information and I was sailing in a matter of minutes.

4 Years on a River and I was ready to coastal cruise. I put her in Atlantic City and had a great time last year. No real problems either.

But knowledge of the weather and ocean conditions were a big plus.

This summer I chartered a Jeanneau 39 on the Chesapeake and it was also great.

What am I getting at? It took me 5 years to get the experience I felt i needed to do what I did.

As for an oceanic voyage now? Not ready... I would think you would have to be out of your mind to just sail away. Life is too short and doing just that may make it even shorter.

Everything including sailing has a learning curve and the curve is never ending in my humble opinion.

The picture of anyone in heavy seas and weather with little experience is frightening.

Spend at least a few weeks sailing before trying to conquer the "Blue Water"...
Maybe a little longer (tongue in cheek) would be advisable.

IMHO...

ABK

Bruce
Yay -- another "Sailing for Dummies" fan!

I read that book right after I started sailing, and it educated me on something very important -- what it meant to have a "lee shore." So when I got caught in rough waters and my sailing companion wanted to take our partially disabled boat closer to shore, I knew that was a very bad choice and took it further out to sea until Sea Tow got there. By the time Sea Tow got there we were in a fair amount of trouble -- but we weren't near the lee shore in a rough surf.

You can't completely learn to sail from books, but books in addition to experience and lessons can be a really good thing.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 15:03   #73
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

The Marketing Department?
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 16:32   #74
Registered User
 
engele's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On the boat -> PNW -> Mexico -> Central America
Boat: Seafarer 38
Posts: 360
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

I think what makes a boat a "bluewater boat" is a skipper's willingness to take it offshore, and a build quality that has allowed a significant number of similar boats to do the same (not that a unique boat might not be even tougher and better).. traditional definitions of a full keel cruiser with a lot of ballast aren't as universal any longer. Motion comfort index numbers seem to mean less to the sailing community as well. Overall it really comes down to the owner. You can take a boat, really any boat, and make it tougher. If you wait on weather you can take a less tough boat just about anywhere a tough boat would go. The irony of the "Blue Water" boat argument is that one "blue water" boat owner will talk down to another as though the second isn't really a bluewater boat. So the Hinkley owner talks down to the Valient owner who talks down to the hans christian owner. All of their boats are capable of taking them anywhere and haver a track record of doing it, but the Hinkley owner will know all of the details about why Hinkley chainplates are better than hans christians. While those three argue, there is a stream of Catalina, multihull, and other production sailboats leaving the marina to cross an ocean. There are real things to be said for things like motion comfort, and full keels, in the same way there are real benefits to the speed some of the cats have. Solid chainplates, appropriate sized rigging, good cockpit drainage, a good righting moment, and standing headroom are things I would value on a cruising boat, regardless of whether I were putting an offshore trip together or a trip down the coast. I would be willing to give up righting moment for the speed and stability of a multihull too given the right boat and still consider the boat "Bluewater capable"
__________________
engele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2011, 16:43   #75
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
" The thing is, no matter how experienced you are, you're only experienced at what you're experienced in. You get caught by an experience you have no prior ... well ... experience for, and you're going to have to rely on your wits, your common sense, and what you've heard and read.

yes Donald, ..... my heads spinning "

What does that mean?

Remember the four football players who took an inadequate boat out into the Gulf of Mexico without checking the weather? Then they anchored badly from the stern, couldn't get the anchor up, didn't want to cut the rode, and flipped the boat. They were out way too far for the boat they were on, and they didn't have an EPIRB.

Three out of the four drowned.

They were "experienced." What that really meant is that they'd been reckless before but got away with it.

The front that flipped their boat had been forecast for days. We all knew it was going to be bad, and no one from my sailing club went out that day. But they did, and based on their "experience" thought they were safe.

Your example of the 4 football players is not a good example from what I have read of the story. I heard they were not "anchored" from the stern but retied the anchor line to the stern to break the anchor free. The boat was most certainly capable of handling the weather they encountered...boats like that do all the time. You would make a better point by refering to the Capacity plate info...I think that's where the issue was out of control...but that's my "accident investigator training" coming out.

As far as not being ready to deal with something you have never experienced...maybe you should read up on some NASA proceedures...they helped pioneer the concept of being of being ready for the unexpected.
__________________

__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are You Scared of Wood ? CharlieCobra General Sailing Forum 116 18-03-2013 17:45
Safe Boat Operations New Boat Handling and Maneuvering Skills Mariners Commercial Posts 0 05-10-2011 14:07
What Rules Do You Have for Guests Aboard ? jackiepitts General Sailing Forum 95 02-10-2011 21:37
What Basics Are Needed for a Bluewater Boat ? Tori General Sailing Forum 32 10-08-2011 06:13
Need Advice on Buying a Boat Capt. lulz Liveaboard's Forum 45 25-07-2011 13:17



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.