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Old 31-10-2011, 08:45   #16
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Re: What makes a boat blue water?

What makes a boat blue water?

Thats simple... The sailor.
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Old 31-10-2011, 08:56   #17
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Re: What makes a boat blue water?

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Originally Posted by Piney View Post
What makes a boat blue water?

Thats simple... The sailor.
You make a good point! Here's an example:


After the muntiny - Captain Bligh

Mar 2, 2001 - © Neal West


The “Bounty” mutiny is perhaps the most well-known episode in British Naval history. After spending several pleasant months among the uninhibited natives of Tahiti, Fletcher Christian and most of the rest of crew decided that they had had enough of Captain Bligh’s authoritative style of leadership. Putting Bligh and 18 loyal sailors off the “Bounty” in a small boat 4000 miles from civilization, the mutineers were confident that Bligh couldn’t survive for long - the mutineers were wrong.
Though the mutiny part of the story has been thoroughly covered in several movies, what is missed is the incredible story of Bligh’s journey in that small boat. On April 28th, 1789, Fletcher Christian put Bligh and 18 loyal men aboard the ship’s launch and cast them adrift with twenty-five gallons of water, one hundred and fifty pounds of bread, thirty pounds of pork, six quarts of rum and six bottles of wine. The launch itself was 23 feet long and 7 feet wide and totally open to the wind, rain and sun of the South Pacific. Though they were adrift around the islands of Tonga – where they might obtain extra water and food – the nearest settlement was over 4000 miles across the ocean. Off the major shipping lanes, and the “Bounty” herself not expected back in England for more than a year, Bligh’s situation was grim.
There were bright spots in the picture, however, Christian allowed Bligh to take a compass, sextant, navigation book, mast and sails on the launch. Bligh himself was extremely intelligent and a master navigator. After a short stop at a nearby island (where they were promptly attacked by natives) Bligh decided to make for the Dutch settlement on the Indonesian island of Timor – 4000 miles away.
Putting to good use - this time - the stern leadership style that got him thrown off the “Bounty” in the first place, Bligh established a strict ration of their meager supplies: one ounce of bread and 0.14 liters of water a day per man (with an occasional teaspoon of rum or wine). Surviving storms, reefs and the weather for six weeks, the small boat entered Timor harbor on 14 June – without losing a man! Quickly returning to England and reporting the mutiny, the Royal Navy began searching for the criminals. Sixteen of the twenty five mutineers returned to Tahiti where they were soon rounded up by the RN and some promptly hung. Christian and a few others made their way to small Pitcairn Island which, being miss- marked on navigational maps, caused them to escape discovery for many years, their descendents live there to this day.
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Old 31-10-2011, 09:05   #18
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Re: What makes a boat blue water?

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Originally Posted by simonpickard View Post
I understand the water tanks are quite small 80gal, is this why people wouldn't try to sail around the world in something like this?
You're passing along bad information here. I hope this is not on purpose. (Dealers like to get on sites such as this and trash the competition, questioning whether the competition makes true "bluewater" boats.) Regardless, the Hanse 470e comes standard with 116 gallons of fresh water. That's easy information to track down on the internet.

If you want to buy an 470e with more water tankage, that's an incredibly easy option to work out. These days many folks don't want the extra tankage because they will be installing a watermaker.

Bottom line is if it would frighten you to make ocean passages on a Hanse 470e, you probably ought to take up a different hobby.
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Old 31-10-2011, 09:09   #19
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Re: What makes a boat blue water?

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Hello all,

(...)

For example..

Hanse 470e. I saw one of these at the Sydney boat show and fell in love. Could you sail this anywhere? If not why not? Could you take this boat and make it blue water safe? I understand the water tanks are quite small 80gal, is this why people wouldn't try to sail around the world in something like this? Could I increase this amount of water / get a watermaker?

(...)
Hi Simon,

There is no such thing as a blue water boat. It is all in our heads. There are many heads and as many opinion on what makes, or not, a bluewater boat.

The world has been sailed round in boats from a couple of feet long and up.

People cruised the arctic in Hobbie Cats, inflatables and kayaks.

A bigger boat = more comforts. Sometimes the bigger boat may also provide more safety but this is again so very much dependent on your skills or lack of such that at times the size factor disappears or starts working against you.

Hanse 470e is a big and comfortable boat. If your skills match the boat's quality then you can take this boat to nearly all nooks of the world ban perhaps the Southern Ocean in winter.

Try to find a boat that matches your needs, skills, lifestyle and pleases your easthetic palate. They are all good & pretty, in one's mind.

Cheers, fair winds,
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Old 31-10-2011, 09:35   #20
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Re: What makes a boat blue water?

Probably easier to start from the angle of "What's not a blue water boat".......either from design, build, condition or equipment. The latter two are fixable - the first couple ain't.

Just will be lots of grey area in the middle - on which side a boat comes down will be a judgement and will also come down to either a Skipper's abilities. or his luck
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Old 31-10-2011, 11:26   #21
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Re: What makes a boat blue water?

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...
Just will be lots of grey area in the middle - on which side a boat comes down will be a judgement and will also come down to either a Skipper's abilities. or his luck...
Good answer, but my own conclusion is both the "Blue Water Boat" and the "Skippers Ability" are both myths and do not actually exist in space or time.

ps. when we are talking of "blue water", what specific blue water are we talking about? The one off of Hawaii, the north sea, BVI, or the one on the great lakes? All have different salinity and season and behavior.
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Old 31-10-2011, 11:48   #22
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Re: What Makes a Boat Blue Water ?

I see no reason at all that boat cant be sailed wherever you want to go. People go in homemade boats, Benetueau's, Catalinas, etc. Those Hanse are sweet looking boats. Some good comments above regarding sail management etc. Open transom is a plus for offshore I would think. It's all about you getting to know the boat well and learning how to manage it in a panic!
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Old 31-10-2011, 12:09   #23
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Re: What Makes a Boat Blue Water ?

There seems to be a bit of consensus that the MacGregor 26X and Sunfish are not blue water boats. Beyond that... not quite so much agreement.

One approach to the question would be from a risk management perspective. That is, some people have sailed all over the world without previous experience and enjoyed it. But, the odds are greater for an inexperienced sailor to have a less successful or happy experience. Experience is no guarantee of happiness or success, but teamed with some common sense and willingness to learn, it certainly improves the odds and tends to reduce the cost of the mistakes ("oh no not another learning experience").

There is perhaps no single best way to get that experience and to figure out what kind of sailing you're most likely to enjoy. Different people come to sailing with different experiences, strengths, weaknesses, time frames, health issues, finances, family/personal situations, goals, and dreams. And there are so very many different kinds of sailing experiences and ways to learn.

Formal classes, books and videos, sail passage experiences, crewed, bareboat, and flotilla charters, messing around on small boats, fixing up inexpensive boats, signing up on sailing and yacht club crew lists, joining clubs (sailing co-ops, commercial sailing schools with "club" programs, yacht clubs with active sail training programs or maybe even loaner boats, etc.), getting on race and cruise boats as crew to sail on "OPB" (other people's boats), sailing with a "buddy boat", helping out with regattas and races... all are good.

"There is no one perfect boat." Your preferences or interests are likely to evolve. With more experience, you'll know much more what you want, can tolerate, can't live without, or can't stand in a boat.
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Old 31-10-2011, 12:09   #24
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Re: What Makes a Boat Blue Water ?

A good modern off shore "blue water" sailing boat is one that can sail at speeds that can avoid big storms by out running them or don't mind going around them loosing time to there destonation, that said the sailing speed should be around 10 to 14 kt's average in about 20 kt's of breeze. We have a great modern costal sailboat but some folks go around the world in good weather Without A Personal Time Schedule with ease, even in a costal Gemini 105Mc. Speed is a big safety factor when avoiding storms at sea.

On the other hand some folks like a smaller (under 30 ft ) slow sailing monohull that can roll completely in waves and still survive with just bruses. There's a solo sailor now going around the Americas counter clockwise that went thru the north west passage and is about parallel with Panama headed south to Cape Horn in the pacific and then up the east coast to Annaplous where he started. www.solotheamericas.org
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Old 31-10-2011, 12:41   #25
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Re: What Makes a Boat Blue Water ?

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A good modern off shore "blue water" sailing boat is one that can sail at speeds that can avoid big storms by out running them or don't mind going around them loosing time to there destonation, that said the sailing speed should be around 10 to 14 kt's average in about 20 kt's of breeze.
A curious statement given that a statistically insignificant number of the boats that have actually sailed around the world would fit that description. One might be excused for thinking you're trolling.
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Old 31-10-2011, 13:06   #26
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Re: What Makes a Boat Blue Water ?

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A curious statement given that a statistically insignificant number of the boats that have actually sailed around the world would fit that description. One might be excused for thinking you're trolling.
That's not a troll - just another Multi owner........who thinks he is posting in the Delusion Zone:-

Multihull Sailboats - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
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Old 31-10-2011, 13:22   #27
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Re: What makes a boat blue water?

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Good answer, but my own conclusion is both the "Blue Water Boat" and the "Skippers Ability" are both myths and do not actually exist in space or time.

ps. when we are talking of "blue water", what specific blue water are we talking about? The one off of Hawaii, the north sea, BVI, or the one on the great lakes? All have different salinity and season and behavior.
No absolutes.

Starting from a negative again , certainly their be "Skipper's Inability" around

But on a general note, the world has changed radically over the last 30 / 40 years and that includes the boat / cruising world. New boat Gadgets have helped (roller foresails, GPS and autopilots spring to mind) but IMO the biggest effect has been the changes ashore (pretty much everywhere - in various shapes and forms. AMEX and UPS spring to mind)........there being no need anymore to bring enough spares to fully rebuild the boat twice and the supplies to last through a Nuclear winter - with the boat sized (and weighing!) accordingly.........so (IMO) the term "Blue Water Boat" is rather outdated, not to say it was ever accurate.

My suggestion for a replacement term is "Boat that yer don't sh#t yerself on - simply crossing the bay". Lets see if that catches on............
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Old 31-10-2011, 14:19   #28
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Re: What makes a boat blue water?

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My suggestion for a replacement term is "Boat that yer don't sh#t yerself on - simply crossing the bay". Lets see if that catches on............
Wouldn't that then be a Brown Water Boat?
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Old 31-10-2011, 15:16   #29
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Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

No one know the definitive answer to the question you've asked. My personal view is that you get what you pay for, generally. A boat with quality components from a quality builder won't fall apart in heavy weather. A production boat that has been refit with quality components and is skippered by someone who knows what he or she is doing is probably blue water capable.

A cheap production boat with the manufacturer's "sail away" package is blue water capable until the wind goes over 30 knots. Then it isn't.
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Old 31-10-2011, 16:49   #30
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Re: What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

Yes, I too think the criteria of being able to go thru bad weather offshore is one of the points to consider. This much said, I think most old boats and new boats do not qualify - the old ones being too old, the new ones being too delicate.

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