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Old 31-03-2012, 13:27   #16
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

In 1978 I was able to present my log books as documented experience in application for my Ocean Operator's license. I suspect that today's equivalent Master's license would accept the same documentation.
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Old 31-03-2012, 13:59   #17
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

Though not the incident I remembered, this story is from the archives of T&T (trawlers and trawlering). While the legality of a log isn't often tested one might as well do it right.
Ronbo


"I found that it said that "Commercial vessels over 75 tons are still
required to keep a logbook to document their activities, but today's
recreational boater is not required to keep a logbook by the Coast
Guard or anyone else...."


When I was in the Navy, the ship kept a bound log that had numbered
pages, and every month, after it was certified, then it was shipped
off as a historical record.

So, I kept a log, bound, and when I found one that had numbered
pages, I bought it. But if not, I numbered the pages myself.

In that log I kept things like position when underway, when crossing
state and country boundaries, various fuel and maintenance items
(like the annual fire extinguisher check,) any boardings (had a
separate book for guests), arrival and departure times, and anything
else of interest.

So, this log came in quite handy while I was living in Chicago and
boating out of Indiana, at a marina at the state line. Indiana sent
me a bill that I had to pay use tax. Now, per their (old) state law,
this was true if the boat is within state waters for 60 consecutive
days.

I wrote back saying that I did not have to pay as I was not in their
state waters on these dates (which I listed) which proved that I
complied with the law.

I offered to provide them copies of my log entries documenting this.
What they wanted was receipts from marinas where I had overnighted.
(Now, the law did NOT say that I had to be outside of their state
waters for any period of time...)

I asked them to provide a copy of the law that required this and they
said, this is how they interpreted the law...

I hired an attorney familiar with maritime law and had him try to
make them see reason. No luck. Then went before a local judge who
would not look at my log book because "I could have made it all up."

Off to the appeals court where they had a judge familiar with
maritime law. He accepted my logbook as fact after inspecting to make
sure there were no pages ripped out. He accepted that my entries in
it were real time, and therefore, probably accurate. He ruled that I
did have to pay the tax, and that the city had to pay all of my legal
costs because the log book, when so maintained, is an accurate
accounting of the "ship's" record, and the city should have known that.

So, that book saved me just over $10k in taxes, plus about $4k in
legal fees".

Lee
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Old 31-03-2012, 14:36   #18
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronbo1 View Post
........................... He accepted that my entries in
it were real time, and therefore, probably accurate. He ruled that I
did have to pay the tax.....................So, that book saved me just over $10k in taxes, plus about $4k in
legal fees".

Lee
Did you leave out the important word, "NOT" in this interesting story?
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Old 31-03-2012, 14:46   #19
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

CaptForce
I copied his entire letter. I think it's safe to say 'Lee' didn't proofread his work since he sounds satisfied at the outcome.
Ronbo
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Old 31-03-2012, 14:49   #20
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

@Kettlewell
In some countries others than the USA, e.g. France, there is a legal requirement for offshore yachts to have a logbook. In French regulations, "offshore" begins 6 nm from any shelter. Then, I'm frequently "offshore".

A French yacht's logbook must contain at least the following:
  • composition of the crew,
  • time the ship sets sail,
  • weather forecasts and the observed weather,
  • the position, the actual route and speed at regular intervals,
  • consumption and stock of fuel,
  • any incident, breakdown or damage either on board or observed in the sailing area
In the French legal system, a logbook IS a legal document. It is considered true until proved otherwise.

Alain
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Old 31-03-2012, 15:31   #21
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

I keep all of that except for speed. I just say "we left port A at such and such a time and arrived at destination B at such and such a time." Why does it matter if I was sailing faster or more slowly at some point?

I do keep a maintenance log detailing every bit of work done on my boat, including when things were serviced, repaired or replaced (and by whom).
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Old 31-03-2012, 15:36   #22
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronbo1 View Post
CaptForce
I copied his entire letter. I think it's safe to say 'Lee' didn't proofread his work since he sounds satisfied at the outcome.
Ronbo
'sorry Ronbo, I failed to notice that you were citing another person's story, but I agree, he must have "not" been required to pay.
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Old 31-03-2012, 23:11   #23
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

re: electronic log books

Handing a shipmate some danger bearings on a rainy night before their watch that they need to keep on them isn't going to work with a laptop. Having pen and paper is invaluable as you can keep it easily in your pocket. Any boat I'm working on we keep a small waterproof notebook log. Entries every hour at minimum on the rpm's / position / speed / heading / passenger count, more if anything is actually going on.

Take a little more work but keeping a logbook going really keeps you sharp. Can be monotonous as hell but worth it, in my opinion, especially on commercial boats.
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Old 31-03-2012, 23:35   #24
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

I use a spiral bound 100 page note book. I am not sure how legal it is, it is just for me to keep tabs on things I wish to remember.
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Old 31-03-2012, 23:39   #25
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

Quote:
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re: electronic log books

Handing a shipmate some danger bearings on a rainy night before their watch that they need to keep on them isn't going to work with a laptop.
Why not? You can copy them onto a slip of paper from the laptop just as easily as you can from a physical logbook. Are you going to carry your logbook up to the cockpit in the rain?

Except for backup charts and a few essential books that are not available in electronic editions (e.g. Eldridge) I keep everything on my laptop and kindle.
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Old 31-03-2012, 23:42   #26
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

Well im lazy last time i filled in a log was when I did some coarse for a week several years ago. On my boat we only sail upto 30nm max so I dont bother (maybe im wrong but )
I do keep a maintenance log detailing upgrades services whether its replaced or repaired. I am a weekend sailor if I was on an overnight I would fill a proper log but not for daysails
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Old 31-03-2012, 23:44   #27
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

The Daytimer I used for work for decades as a Project Manager became my Log Book. The Daytimer saved my ass on so many occasions professionally, legally and personally it's not even funny.

I find it apropos that it become my ships log.
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Old 01-04-2012, 00:02   #28
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

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Originally Posted by Strait Shooter View Post
The Daytimer I used for work for decades as a Project Manager became my Log Book. The Daytimer saved my ass on so many occasions professionally, legally and personally it's not even funny.

I find it apropos that it become my ships log.
It is nice to see you found a way to recycle your Daytimer, most people would have tossed it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:35   #29
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

Like many, I keep two logs. The "Deck Log" has a record of our daily passage, conditions, crew......most all those things that people have been referring to above. I also keep an "Engine Log" which contains a record of running time for engines & all my maintenance for my propulsion engine and generator, but in addition, specifications and part numbers for all forms of equipment and maintenance records for all the mechanical items aboard.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:18   #30
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Re: What Log Book Do You Use

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Like others, I looked at several published log books and decided to design my own. I wanted separate sections for useful boat information, log pages, engine use and general maintenance. We've been using since Jan and it appears to be working out well. I have noticed that I've duplicated the engine hours in the log and engine use sections, though and I may revise at some point.

Examples are on my blog: Tartan 3500 - Intuition: Log Book

It was easy to make - I used MS Excel with separate worksheets for pages and drew borders around cells.
Don
I just wanted to thank you for sharing yours. Nice to see an example of a self made one. I was looking at a yacht log at a West Marine and thought of making up my own.

...and another blog to add to my list, thanks.
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