What is the optimal outboard setup?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by john61ct

But the other downside to outboards is no PTO / pulley alternator power, for charging when solar's not enough.

Mine does have an integral alternator, although it only puts out a few amps.

Another disadvantage is that they are typically louder than an inboard.

[thomm225]

One good thing about a bracket though if you go with one that isn't the strongest is that they will flex a bit which I'm thinking will take some of the stress off the stern

I bought a Panther 2 stroke bracket in 2011 for my 58 lb, 4 stroke, 5 hp outboard. The 2 stroke bracket will support engines up to 20 hp and weights as high as 115lb. It has a 14" lift so it gets the engine down quite far in the water. The engine is down in the third slot out of four in the photos below

I had to put some 2 x 4 spacers on mine to get the engine back a bit more so I could get it all the way out of the water after I raised it

These brackets also get the engine clear of the stern which helps to keep the fuels, oils, and exhaust off the boat.

My engine has no alternator either, but I've done a few vacation cruises of 6 days or so with a couple cloudy days during that period plus squalls on the other days and didn't run low on power. To go more days, I would have just needed more ice and supplies.

I had only my 65 watt solar panel at the time charging two 12 volt batteries in parallel

[Ellevan]

thomm225 -

I like the sound of a nice light weight motor. My boat displaces about the same as yours. What sort of cruising speeds do you get when you do have to motor?

[liquidice]

I agree with other posters that mounting right on the boat, instead of a mount would be the way to go. That’s definitely what I would do. It does seem like a lot of motor, but sometimes it’s nice to have some extra motor when you’re going against a headwind. In the picture you can see that there’s water damage to the plywood from where the holes were from the motor mount. Maybe if you were to get a lighter motor it would be easier to move the motor around and if you were going to be out for a long time, you can just lift the whole thing off. That is one of the nice parts about those two strokes, is that you can easily just pull them off with one hand and put them below deck. Maybe you could raise up the cutout by a couple inches so you could lock the motor in the upright position. It does seem like it would crowd up the cockpit though, especially with the gas tank.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Ellevan

thomm225 -

I like the sound of a nice light weight motor. My boat displaces about the same as yours. What sort of cruising speeds do you get when you do have to motor?

I get from 3.3 to about 5 knots depending on tide, current, and wave height. The current can be quite strong where I sail since it's where the Chesapeake Bay meets the Atlantic Ocean

Just for the record, when sailing under normal conditions, speeds are between 4 - 6.5 knots. I've hit 7.3 knots before downwind/broad reach but it was blowing 30 mph that day and I had the tide.............

In my creek, I get from 4.5 - 5 knots tide dependent and I usually run the motor at 3/4 throttle max

Many times though I can raise sail and lower the motor's throttle. I've also sailed with the main only and the outboard at 1/3 motor throttle to sail maybe 10-15 degrees closer to the wind for 30 miles before which saved me many hours on a return sail (I had to get back for work the next day)

This old video is not very clear but you can hear how low I have the engine's throttle set.

In the video, I'm about to cross the shipping channel where the aircraft carrier in the link below is headed out to sea

https://www.google.com/search?q=ches...=1521923289148

I had motored for about 15 miles on a flat sea and then a cloud line passed over and brought some wind so I unfurled the jib but left the motor running since I only had about 5 miles to go to get to my creek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEw7pYeO0Oc

Here's another video going against a 3 knot + tide headed out to the ocean in maybe a 35'-45' deep channel. The outboard is maxed out. You can see the current on the water and see the pilings moving. Heavy weather would come in later with strong onshore winds. The Moon was full.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6sHpweobRM

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thomm225

One good thing about a bracket though if you go with one that isn't the strongest is that they will flex a bit which I'm thinking will take some of the stress off the stern

Flexing is not a good thing. Think about canvas enclosures. They make them drum tight because flexing will eventually fatigue them and cause them to fail. Same thing would happen with a motor mount that's flopping around.

If we are talking small monohulls, they usually don't have a lot of electrical demand so a couple 100w solar panels off the stern will rarely be insufficient. Getting 7-10amps in a pinch motoring with the outboard will typically get you thru (or carry small inverter generator).

With modern 4 strokes, fuel economy and noise are not the issue they were 30-40yrs ago with 2 stroke outboards. We'd get 30-40miles on our 34' catamaran with a 25hp outboard doing 6.5kts with the 6gal outboard tank that as plumbed in with built in tanks. At low speed, I have had to look to see if it's running because it's so quiet.

[Adelie]

15hp is the wrong motor for the boat even it were pitched right.

8hp would be fine. 10hp if you were worried about being under powered.

Lighter weight motor and lower thrust would alleviate problems with flexing.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Flexing is not a good thing. Think about canvas enclosures. They make them drum tight because flexing will eventually fatigue them and cause them to fail. Same thing would happen with a motor mount that's flopping around.

If we are talking small monohulls, they usually don't have a lot of electrical demand so a couple 100w solar panels off the stern will rarely be insufficient. Getting 7-10amps in a pinch motoring with the outboard will typically get you thru (or carry small inverter generator).

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion on flexing (although I didn't mean the motor would be flopping around) which is why I first recommended the OP get a strong Garelick Bracket like this one.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Garelick-...b9a64900ece68c

The bracket I have which I also recommended to the OP due to his "new" stern was this Panther Bracket that does flex a bit (but doesn't flop)

Outboard Motor Bracket 2-Stroke by Panther | Marine Products Pro Shop

The one above is what I have on my boat to support my 5 hp 4 stroke 58 lb outboard. This bracket is actually recommended for a 2 stroke motor weighing less than 115 lbs. The flexing is minimal and my bracket's shape is the same as when new as shown in the photos I posted above

As far as solar (especially for coastal cruisers being out 2 weeks or less) 65 watts to 85 watts has worked for me since I have no fridge etc. I can actually turn most everything off if needed to allow the batteries to charge but haven't had to yet.

My panels are also not mounted. My 65 watt panel is lying on my aft lazarette and tied in place. I have a 20 watt panel that is stored in the port lazarette locker and brought out when necessary usually when at anchor.

My outboard has no alternator either which makes for less clutter on the back of the boat (with lines, hoses etc)

My solar which charges two 12 volt batteries in parallel runs my interior lights, autopilot, 400 Watt Inverter (and spare 1500 watt spare inverter) Depth, VHF, GPS, and running lights. Anchor light is a portable LED Lantern which runs on it's own batteries.

[john61ct]

Besides the fridge, even a portable Engel, a DC watermaker's the other game-changing load.

[TopHat]

This looks like a fantastic position for an outboard, Atom Voyages - Triton #503 Refit Part 1
Basically making or turning a lazarette into an outboard well, overcomes a lot of the problems of having an outboard ie, having the outboard leg further inboard, rather than on the transom, able to easily tilt and control the OB, and more secure against theft.
I'm thinking a similar conversion to the already there, outboard well of my Top Hat 25 would be a fantastic improvement.
Cheers

[boatman61]

For me the optimal set up is in a well.. such as the Hurley 22, Achilles 24 and Elizabethan 23.
Hanging on a stern bracket is inefficiant in the extreme needing near calm conditions to function satisfactorily.
Anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves.
A Honda 5hp 4x will push any of these boats along at 5kts easily at 3/4 throttle.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by TopHat

This looks like a fantastic position for an outboard, Atom Voyages - Triton #503 Refit Part 1
Basically making or turning a lazarette into an outboard well, overcomes a lot of the problems of having an outboard ie, having the outboard leg further inboard, rather than on the transom, able to easily tilt and control the OB, and more secure against theft.
I'm thinking a similar conversion to the already there, outboard well of my Top Hat 25 would be a fantastic improvement.
Cheers

Also worth noting, he is running a 6 hp 4 stroke outboard on a boat that displaces 6930 lbs

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by boatman61

For me the optimal set up is in a well.. such as the Hurley 22, Achilles 24 and Elizabethan 23.
Hanging on a stern bracket is inefficiant in the extreme needing near calm conditions to function satisfactorily.
Anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves.
A Honda 5hp 4x will push any of these boats along at 5kts easily at 3/4 throttle.

Actually, mounting your outboard off the stern will work most of the time although I have had mine pop out in steep waves from 3'-5' (and as with many things sailing, this will usually occur at a most inopportune time)

For me it usually happens when we have strong Northerly winds coming into our creek and I'm trying to get out. If the winds are NE, you have a mix of bay waves and ocean waves that get steep right at the mouth of the creek.

My creek has a large rock jetty on both sides.

I will have my main sail up in this situation and cheat toward the windward side while motoring out. Once I get as far out as possible with the engine still in the water, I'll tack away from the wind and roll out the jib. This can be tough on an in coming tide but it will work.

After getting the boat out and sailing on autopilot, its then time to get the engine up and tied off with the boat heeling at 20 - 25 degrees. Fun stuff!

How low the bracket is mounted on your stern, boat type, and bracket adjustment range all come in to play

Mounting the outboard in the well is probably the best if you want to put the effort into it, but for some of us it's about cutting more holes in the bottom of the boat.

My outboard has been on the stern since 2011

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by boatman61

For me the optimal set up is in a well.. such as the Hurley 22, Achilles 24 and Elizabethan 23.
Hanging on a stern bracket is inefficiant in the extreme needing near calm conditions to function satisfactorily.
Anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves.
A Honda 5hp 4x will push any of these boats along at 5kts easily at 3/4 throttle.

I am certainly inclined to agree with you there, though my outboard is hung outside, (but that is by necessity, my well is too small and too close to the rudder post.) I will say however the feature of my boat, or any boat needing an outboard, that helps is that it has less overhang than many other CCA boats, like a Triton for example, and a little less rocker too. Both of those luckily work in my favor because I don't want a different boat and I am not retired yet to allow me to be able to wait a day or two for the wind to come up to bring me all the way home engineless... but I sure am looking forward to it... I'll be one of those SH snoring below for my 6 hour beauty sleep if any of y'all happen by
Oh and just for reference sake my 4 ton boat needs its 8hp to go 5 knots at 3/4 throttle in calm water.

[Soton]

Originally Posted by thomm225

One good thing about a bracket though if you go with one that isn't the strongest is that they will flex a bit which I'm thinking will take some of the stress off the stern

I bought a Panther 2 stroke bracket in 2011 for my 58 lb, 4 stroke, 5 hp outboard. The 2 stroke bracket will support engines up to 20 hp and weights as high as 115lb. It has a 14" lift so it gets the engine down quite far in the water. The engine is down in the third slot out of four in the photos below

I had to put some 2 x 4 spacers on mine to get the engine back a bit more so I could get it all the way out of the water after I raised it

These brackets also get the engine clear of the stern which helps to keep the fuels, oils, and exhaust off the boat.

My engine has no alternator either, but I've done a few vacation cruises of 6 days or so with a couple cloudy days during that period plus squalls on the other days and didn't run low on power. To go more days, I would have just needed more ice and supplies.

I had only my 65 watt solar panel at the time charging two 12 volt batteries in parallel

Unfortunately the force does not disappear because the bracket deflects. You will get the same force on the stern notwithstanding flexure of the bracket. Think of a spring. If you push down with a force say of 10 lbs the spring will deflect but you will still get a reaction force of 10 lbs on the surface against which you are pushing.