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Old 09-09-2011, 12:31   #31
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

There are plenty of boats, but no deals, nor decrease in prices. I can't find an affordable 40' footer to save my life" I can buy a house cheaper. How can we get around these parasitic brokers? The NADA publishes boat prices, brokers not only ignore them, they often charge 50% more than new prices. its both frustrating and communistic
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:45   #32
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

I'm looking for a go anywhere sailboat 37-47 feet. If you have any bargains in your marina, I'm willing to pay a finders fee for a nice Caliber, Benneteau, Spindrift. No junk, just really nice cruisers. I've looked for months on the internet from illinois. Brokers block almost everything worth my money. Thanks
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Old 09-09-2011, 13:55   #33
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

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I'm looking for a go anywhere sailboat 37-47 feet. If you have any bargains in your marina, I'm willing to pay a finders fee for a nice Caliber, Benneteau, Spindrift. No junk, just really nice cruisers. I've looked for months on the internet from illinois. Brokers block almost everything worth my money. Thanks
Are you only looking in the Illinois area, or world wide,

What does, The brokers block you, mean,
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Old 09-09-2011, 14:18   #34
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

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5 years until another Boom? Not likely. We are not in any sort of traditional boom and bust, and the historical record has nothing to compare with today. There has been no other ordinary business cycle in the 20th century plus in which the u.s. dollar was on such incredible shaky ground as it is today. Furthermore, the U.S. has never been in the Ponzi Scheme business like it is today, the U.S. has never funded it's operating costs with another credit card.

The media is not reporting it, but we are selling treasuries to Goldman Sachs. The Chinese and Europeans stopped buying. Then Goldman Sachs sells them back to a different government agency, yes at a mark up. That government agency is not printed paper money, it just prints electronic money. We are paying our national bills by adding lines to a spreadsheet. No increased GDP, production, natural resources, etc. just I.O.U. which are somehow going to be paid in the future. There were a dozen workers to every SS recipient at the start, now it's something like 2.4 workers and shrinking. Poniz scheme - Madoff scheme. Politicians promise cheeseburgers today that they will gladly promise someone else will pay for Tuesday.

No, we ain't getting out this like an ordinary business cycle.

And you are wrong about only losing money selling in a crash period. If your money makes 5% in one investment and -10% in another 'investment' then you lose money. Just think as a boat as an investment losing 10% per year. Could be more percentage wise. How much is insurance alone, plus maintenance, storage, your time. Plus the boat is depreciating, getting older. You lose money waiting.

But I do agree with you about boats not selling are overpriced.

Market price is the price that a boat sells at. The market price during the bubble years or when someone bought a boat are not the market price today. If a boat doesn't sell, it is priced too high.
It hasnt been this bad since the great depression, back in the 30's. But I was talking Bricks and Mortar, Not stocks,

A couple of my propertys lost $50,000-00, Two years later I had my 50 back and another 100,000-00 on top of it.

But that was in the profit margin, It never went any where near back to the price I originally paid for them.

With shares, They go down and you lose the lot, There is no bounce back,

Property in the USA, people are just walking away from their houses, Its different here in Australia,

You can buy a brand new boat here Cheaper than a couple of years old one,

People are not spending because they are worried about losing their jobs,
They are not spending because they are worried about interest rates going up.

Couple of percent doesnt sound like much, but if you have a half million dollar loan, Thats a lot of price hike,

I was paying 21.5 % when I bought the property I am in now, 1990. I have made that back and then some, Some thing to the order of 700 %

Very astute buying, I will probably not lose any money on my Cat when I sell it in five or so years time, The market will have gone up again, Thats the way it goes,

Another great depression is not on the cards, as the rich people know that it will affect them and they will lose everything as well.

The man in the street will cop it in the neck, But they will do every thing to avoid themselves going under.

Im an old Fart, and I have been through 4 recessions already in my time,
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Old 09-09-2011, 14:42   #35
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

They approach the owner with 'sky high' promises for sale prices. They put these 50% NADA mark-up prices on these used boats. Some fools but them at that price. Anyone that does his homework knows he's being robbed.

I don't live near the marinas, nor know the sellers. I can't make contact unless I get lucky, or I manage to penetrate the junkie book screen. There's no getting around the brokers to buy a good sturdy sailboat. Your logic about the economy rings true, I don't need a sailboat except to leave the USA.
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Old 09-09-2011, 15:03   #36
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

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They approach the owner with 'sky high' promises for sale prices. They put these 50% NADA mark-up prices on these used boats. Some fools but them at that price. Anyone that does his homework knows he's being robbed.
Dude, if you find one for only 50% over NADA **buy it***. In the vintages I've been looking, 150% to 400% isn't uncommon. A smarter man than I might start to think that NADA is worthless.

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Old 09-09-2011, 15:09   #37
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

I just bought my Cat in Fiji, Half the price of Australia, Its the going rate for an American boat,
But the boats in OZ are just out of my reach,
I am lucky that I paid cash for mine, and still have enough left over to retire on,

Some one paid the exorbitant price the Estate agent wacked on it,

I am more than happy with that, I am now self funded retiree,
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Old 09-09-2011, 15:31   #38
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

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and whether it's really worth twice the price to get a popular character (Valiant, anyone)
JRM
I have seen reference to the price issue with Valiants a few times. Looking at the internet (and being very green), it doesn't seem to be that clear cut. I don't doubt a small price premium but there are many boats being listed in a similar price bracket to the Valiants that are currently listed.
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Old 09-09-2011, 16:17   #39
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

As a buyer to be, looks excellent to me. As a seller, not so rosie. It is wishful thinking on an owners part to think it will get better. There is nothing in the US economy that would point to upper middle class job increases. We are not manufacturing, consumers are not buying save for electronics (read china), people are getting laid off right and left, and disposable income is at an all time low. The upper middle class is quickly evaporating and there is nothing that indicates we will become a major manufacturing country again, as share holders demand greater profits afforded to those companies exploiting cheap labor overseas. If anyone can point to me where good paying jobs will appear in America, please do so....all I see is service jobs, and most working in that industry do everything they can to stay afloat--so to speak.
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Old 09-09-2011, 16:33   #40
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

nada book(usa)- the blue book of boat pricing. use it. has what the boat is worth on a normal market. then subtract half and then add ...this is a purely buyers' market. boats are selling for 1/4-1/3 their nada value. brokers are asking above nada value.
wannabe sellers are , as well.
market will not improve.
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Old 09-09-2011, 17:10   #41
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

In 2009 brokers in NZ tried to get everyone who were selling their boat to whack off half the price that owners were first asking for. Brokers in a bad market want to sell your boat as fast as possible for less profit and more turn over. I have to assume it is the same in todays market even in the USA. We fired our broker after we found out he brought friends down to look at Mason 44 posing as serious buyers. Everyone of them said the boat was not worth the price we wanted. One week later after telling the broker don't even show up anywhere near our boat I sold her for 6K more than we bought her for, put into her and what our trip from Seattle to NZ cost. So I guess if your selling and you have a well found vessel hold tough if she is not in good form sell cheap in this market. If your a buyer and you want a good used boat you will still pay a good price for them. Just looking at the Mason 44's for sale built in 1988 the prices go from 174K to 250K Knowing a bit about those 3 boats for sale I would say those are good prices for each one of them.
The company building our new boat is booked I believe for the next few years or longer so I'm thinking the higher end builders are still doing well.
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Old 09-09-2011, 17:16   #42
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

I can only hope for someone who has more money than sense, to become bored with their present boat, list it at a go nowhere price, and after becoming tired of keeping it on the market, drop it to the dollar amount I'm willing to spend. I do love a good bargain, and can usually get it with a little patience. But then again, I'm not trying to sell my boat yet, so I'm not seeing things from the other side of the fence.
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Old 09-09-2011, 17:45   #43
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

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As a buyer to be, looks excellent to me. As a seller, not so rosie. It is wishful thinking on an owners part to think it will get better. ...
The only problem with that thinking is that every buyer is a seller some time in the future so if it is not going to get better then really it is not a buyers market either.

Jim
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Old 09-09-2011, 18:30   #44
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

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The only problem with that thinking is that every buyer is a seller some time in the future so if it is not going to get better then really it is not a buyers market either.

Jim
Still a buyers market, no matter how you slice it. If I buy a boat for 14k put 10k into it and live on it and cruise for 5 years, I am ahead no matter what, such as a recently for sale Alberg 30. When finished I give it to charity and write it off at $.30 on the dollar. There is a reason so many boats are given to charities as 1/3 of blue book is more than they can get on the open market and one gets rid of it immediately.
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Old 09-09-2011, 18:52   #45
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Re: What Do You Think Is the Current State of the Sailboat Market ?

As in real estate, it is clearly a buyers market.

Too many people get hung up on "book value".

A few friends of mine in the used car business get this thrown at them all the time... some buyer will come in chirping about what the "book value" of his old trade in is and what it should be worth.

The usual response?

"Get the book to write you a check then".

'nough said.
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