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Old 24-06-2015, 16:07   #46
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Re: What can I afford?

You're going to need serious bucks for an offshore boat that's laid out for entertaining. You may be trying to do too much with too little.



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Old 24-06-2015, 16:13   #47
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Re: What can I afford?

Let me try again.

"Entertaining".

I'm not talking a party yacht, I mean kicking back with a few beers on deck. With a handful of people.
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Old 24-06-2015, 17:18   #48
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Re: What can I afford?

I bet you'll be happy on whatever you end up with. Lot's of opinions, usually well trodden, yet still based on personal preferences.

This guy stakes out the minimalist claim well... Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

You could do worse that starting from a minimalist baseline and broadening that out depending on what you feel you need. On the other hand, there's the temptation to try and get as much as you feel you can get away with.

Knowing what you want is tough until you get out there. But if you found a nice simple 35' boat with a good pedigree there's not a whole lot you could regret about it.

Would also add that LOA only means so much. Beam, tankage, stowage, etc. all make a big difference. Some 30' are "more boat" than some 35'. A foot or two of extra beam can make a huge difference in terms of liveability, though there may be tradeoffs in terms of performance.
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Old 24-06-2015, 18:55   #49
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Re: What can I afford?

Well, if it's just a few dudes having bevvies in the cockpit or a couple of babes in bikinis supplying witty conversation you don't need a 37 or 38' boat. A boat that size is so much more work and so much more money to maintain then say a 30' boat, it really changes things up.

My thoughts are given your saving time line, you're better off with a small stout boat. You don't want to go into debt to go sailing for a couple of years.

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Old 24-06-2015, 20:08   #50
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Re: What can I afford?

Congratulations on getting the education and now making the plan that acknowledges that which is important to you. I did many crazy things in my life that most people puzzled over. I regretted few of them and feel I led exactly the life I need to experience.

A word of caution - once you become a committed, experienced, and comfortable cruiser on a sailboat, no matter the size, you will be pretty much ruined for the work-a-day life on shore. As you spend more time seeing this wonderful world from a boat and meeting the incredible variety of fantastic cruisers you will find it harder and harder to return to a normal life.

I spent a lot of time, many months a year, pursuing my passions while I worked hard the rest of the time and saved a good deal of money. When I retired and move aboard Mirador for full time cruising the only concern I had during the first year or so was "Why did I not do this sooner?"

That was OK for me because my working days were past and I was financially secure, no matter what. But, it would have been very hard for me to try to work full time in a "real job" once I spent that four years cruising.

I tried to work again but my heart was not in it, I could not bring myself to commit to full time work, and after four years acknowledged I was no longer willing to work and went sailing and bicycling again.

The other note I will add - $2,500 a year will allow an extravagant lifestyle on the boat. My wife and I lived on a boat in Mexico for well less than half of than. If you have that kind of budget for 2.5 years I imagine you will have no problem lasting five or more years. And, at that point you may never go back to the dry land world.
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Old 24-06-2015, 20:19   #51
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Re: What can I afford?

"I've been doing some careful budgeting and believe that a 20-40K boat is well within my means, and I'd only go outside this range for an exceptional deal. This leaves me about 2.5K/mo for 2.5 years of cruising if I leave exactly 2 years after my employment (this accounts for 15K in refit/prep costs). "

I am not sure how to interpret the preceding comments but will offer a word of caution about them.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to over estimate the dollars and the time needed to update and outfit a sailboat for long distance full time cruising. If you are looking at a $30k boat then I would allow at least $15k for updated and full time cruising needs. (Maybe that is what you were saying?)

A friend on my dock is a very experienced sailboat owner and professional mariner. He owned a Force 50 sailboat in Florida and lived aboard, while cruising the Bahamas, Turks, and Caicos for years when he was not at sea in his professional position.

He sold that boat when he went to SE Asia for a 10-year work assignment.

He came back to San Diego last year and purchased a Catalina 38 ( a presidents cup race boat) for $32k. It was in better than new condition with new engine, transmission, hull and bottom paint and updated interior when he purchased it. Gene is preparing to leave to leave for full time cruising in Mexico in Dec 2015 and then on to Florida over the next several years. He works 28-days on and 28-off and can not work for months at a time so he is on a schedule similar to your idea, but with a very well paid guaranteed job.

He has spent $10,000 on upgrades on those things needed for full time cruising and is looking at another $20,000 in necessary upgrades. He is pretty compulsive about things because his professional work is safety at sea, emergency medicine, and emergency procedures on very large ocean going vessels. But, I have not seen him spent a penny that was not necessary.

Good Luck!

Some of the things Gene has added in the last year:

- dinghy & outboard
- storm sails
- light air sail
- new refrigeration
- updated battery charger
- bigger alternator
- new batteries

Things he needs to upgrade
- ground tackle
- some standing rigging
- update main and genoa
- SSB radio
- Pactor modem (required for his work)
- solar panels
- arch
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Old 25-06-2015, 13:12   #52
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Re: What can I afford?

I have plenty of time to change my mind. One thing planning for this "trip" is doing for me is tightening my spending, making me more financially responsible (up until the point I start buying and fitting a boat), and making me think of ways to earn income outside of the 9-5. In other words, it has provided me a sense of motivation both in and out of the 9-5 job with a very specific goal in mind. Thus, if I decide that this is a silly idea, or something comes along that pulls me away, I think I'll be in good shape.

Regarding the financial details. Yes, the 2.5K/mo for 2.5 years figure was post-refit, post-boat, and accounted my living expenses for the next 2 years. It didn't account for liquidation of assets, promotions, external income, or investments, but I don't think any of those are significant. I agree that 2.5K/mo is lavish, but some of that money would also account for an emergency fund. I haven't figured out what this would be, but I would probably want it to be 10K that I could dip into if I had to. Regardless, I'd rather be conservative on my figuring, than to get excited about the possibility of a 5 year trip.

Anyway, though I'm attracted to the 37s and 38s I've seen (online), I'm hesitant to pursue them because of the non-linear increase in maintenance and refit costs that come with every 1 foot of hull. I think I'd be happier with a nice 32 or 35, and putting the extra money into improvements/cruising kitty. Again, my main reason for looking at the 37s and 38s is for the possibility of having a small crew aboard.

I'm spending far too much time on YachtWorld day dreaming about potential boats when I haven't stepped foot inside the cabin of a Sailboat larger than 22 feet in my life. I should talk to some people in the Portland area and see if they'll invite me over to see their boats.
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Old 25-06-2015, 13:42   #53
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Re: What can I afford?

Bluewaterboats.org has some good choices. Check out the boats to vote for too. Since you are also interested in a meaningful career, I would say don't derail that. In my case I kind of did the same thing you are thinking of. In my case I chose to become a teacher. It is a career I believe in, fair benefits and I have summers off. If you have a nice boat, big enough to live on in a harbor near your career choice, you might be able to scratch both itches. For a 32 foot that could be a good value, you might take a look at the old Pearson Vanguards. Atomvoyages is a good site, great advice, but I think his recommendations are under 30 feet, I could be wrong... Sailboatcruising.com has some good advice too IMO.
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Old 25-06-2015, 13:56   #54
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Re: What can I afford?

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
For the boat 40%

For refitting, 25% on two year time

35% kept aside
Move were you can live out of marina most of time
Costs increase with the cube of linear length...anyway, to cut it short,... anything in the 32-35' range looks like a coastal toy, or a vessel on which a simple F6 looks like a severe storm
I heartly urge you to consider some traditional design in the 37-38' range, like a Baltic, Sweden, Wauquiez.

your sailing Zone is not for dinghies, and please no one may argument that people rowed, or sailed oceans, with 7m boats.

as we agree on the bikini test... we want her able to stand upright under cockpit, and crawl only in bed :-)

PS my worst sailing was with GS35, where fighting replaced joy on a 41' in similar conditions (F6-7 or 30kn)
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Old 25-06-2015, 13:58   #55
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Re: What can I afford?

A few points:

1) Your first boat doesn't have to be your forever boat. If you buy well, you'll get your money back when you sell...like if your needs change.

2) LOA is not everything. Some "shorter" boats have more space below than longer boats. Consider the layout instead. If you want to "entertain", I recommend a boat that has "pilot" berths..or "uppers" in the main saloon, in addition to quarter berths. Many older Sparkman and Stevens designs have these (like the old swans for example) or the C&C41.

3) Get on as many boats as you can. Most sailors are proud of their boats, and won't mind giving you a tour, if you are polite and friendly. Head down to your local marina or club and start rubbing elbows. There is always a need for an extra hand on race night, or during haulout, or short deliveries. This forum is great for bringing the world to your computer, but at some point you need to step out the door and onto a deck!

4) $2.5k/month....you will live like a king! If you are living aboard, I would have said $1k/mth or less.
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Old 25-06-2015, 14:15   #56
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Re: What can I afford?

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Originally Posted by Ryban View Post
Here's a brief outline of me and where I am:

I'm 28 and fresh into a relatively cozy job after 5 years as a broke-ass grad student. Prior to this job, I didn't really having any savings, so my current income is the only money to my name. I have no debt, good credit, and very little money tied up in assets -- most of which I would likely liquidate before I set sail.

I feel strongly that the ocean is the place for me, and not this 8-5 cushy desk job. My tentative plan is to keep the job sufficiently long enough that I feel I can afford to cruise for a solid year or two unencumbered, and then work as needed/wanted, depending on what I want to do from there.

I've been been reading everything I can find and have seen a lot of different opinions abound on "how big and how much". For example, some people finance their boats, but most people seem to say financing a depreciating asset is a bad idea.

Here are my criteria:
  • Solo liveaboard cruiser
  • Blue water capable
  • Option to accommodate a crew member or two along the way (i.e. separate sleeping arrangements)
  • In decent shape, but am willing and prepared to spend considerable time and money making it sea-worthy

I plan to rake in the money for 2 years and then set sail. However, I want to be living aboard as soon as I can make happen.

What percent of my budget should be spent on the boat itself?
If you work on a way to keep working while living aboard or cruising then you have a good plan.

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Old 26-06-2015, 13:51   #57
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Re: What can I afford?

People have been suggesting websites, some of which I have found myself, other which I have found through the community. I'll re-post the three I have found most useful in terms of selecting/getting to know the "bluewater" boats in this class:

Full List of Sailboats
Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising
Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

Then there are a whole array of boats that people have taken offshore that don't fall under these lists -- but I think there's an entire, 700+ response long thread devoted to "The Criteria of Blue".

I just read a story about refit costs on a Morgan 382. They spent $23,000 to outfit her, which at first I thought was a lot of money, but it follows the 50% of initial investment rule pretty solidly. The Morgan 382 cabins look quite roomy though..

Anyway, these 37s and 38s are super tempting, but I need to be very careful with the survey to know just exactly how much money I'll be throwing into my sink hole. The cube-law does seem to hold water as well.
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Old 26-06-2015, 14:29   #58
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Re: What can I afford?

And you may have done this but when you go to bluewaterboats.org click on the "vote for upcoming sailboats" link too, because there are a bunch of excellent boats there too to research. Sounds like you are heading toward the 35 to 40 foot range (which is a wide range.) There are many great boats in the 30 to 35 range if prices of the larger boats are too high. In your range though the Pearson 365 has a good rep for cruising with its skeg hung rudder and good speed. And don't forget, especially for boats, they are (almost) always, "or best offer!"

By way of example only, here are two examples of same boat, but different year and very different asking price. I am guessing that, among other things, the less expensive one may be due for an engine rebuild, but it is a common engine with a good rep.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/cate...rson/365+Ketch
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Old 26-06-2015, 15:17   #59
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Re: What can I afford?

Your OBO statement is a good point. It's easy to see the listed price and assume that's what you'll pay, but I imagine a great deal of bargaining occurs, especially if you find something that is going to cost you unduly to fix.

I have a thing for ketches and I'm sure I'm not alone. I've also read that they can be easier to single hand, but in my limited sailing experience, I'm not sure why that would be. The Pearson 365 is moving towards the top of my list.
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Old 26-06-2015, 15:38   #60
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Re: What can I afford?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryban View Post
Your OBO statement is a good point. It's easy to see the listed price and assume that's what you'll pay, but I imagine a great deal of bargaining occurs, especially if you find something that is going to cost you unduly to fix.

I have a thing for ketches and I'm sure I'm not alone. I've also read that they can be easier to single hand, but in my limited sailing experience, I'm not sure why that would be. The Pearson 365 is moving towards the top of my list.
Yeah, especially after the survey.
I am not sure I'd feel the ketch is easier to singlehand, but with the mizzen you have more options in the configuration, which I like. The ketch rig (365) was the early rig because the shoal draft keel needed a lower center of sail area/effort. While the later cutter rig (367) was probably more popular, and little better performer (with its deeper keel,) the ketch rig has the advantage of a shoal draft keel. (I think technically it was a staysail sloop rig, not a cutter, but who's quibbling..)

Also, the ketch rig has the advantage of not having a staysail. Staysails are great for cruising in that they give you an easy heavy weather option, but under more common conditions the jib or genoa doesn't tack well through the slot (hence the removable stay.)
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