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Old 22-06-2015, 02:44   #31
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Re: What can I afford?

Do it when the interest from your net worth can support you without diminishing. Like all the above stories, your life will be different, enjoy it.


All U Get


PS The name came from our first boat when my wife drew the line, "That's All U Get".
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Old 22-06-2015, 09:10   #32
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Re: What can I afford?

Subscribing to the thread as my GF and I (31/32) are having similar discussions. We are from across the river in Vancouver ;-).

My thoughts:
1. Follow your current plan to buy a boat & outfit while working. Liveaboard Marinas seem very affordable in Portland.

2. Focus your current job on something that could end up with remote contracts... If you could even pull in 10 hrs / week at engineering contract rates, you could be saving while sailing.

3. Find something to invest in now (or in the next 2 years) that may slowly accrue while sailing. Not sure what this is... perhaps buy a rental house where the rent beats the mortgage with enough margin to afford a property manager & emergency repair fund (for the house) (?)

From my perspective... I've met very few people who said, "I really wish I would have worked more in my life," and many more people who said, "I wish I would have done more with my life". I.e., even if you head down the sailing path & it is an epic fail, at least you will not wonder about what could have been ;-).


Cheers!

-Andy
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Old 22-06-2015, 13:32   #33
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Re: What can I afford?

The mix of advice here is fantastic -- regardless of each's own opinion. It seems like I'll be in good company along the way.

I've started listening to the SailLoot podcast and some of the interviews have started to inspire some ideas to generate trickle income. As for real/safe investment income -- I'm completely investment stupid. Buying real estate and renting it out sounds like a very expensive endeavor that will only take me further away from goals.

My sailing plans are unknown right now, but based on where I am geographically and where I'd like to go, I'll probably be going down the West Coast, and then cutting over to to the South Pacific.

I'm also looking into employment options in Australia -- if I can get a work Visa, it might be an attractive option to work for 6-12 months doing contract work or something related. Who knows -- that's a very long ways away.
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Old 22-06-2015, 14:39   #34
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Re: What can I afford?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
Being out of that market for ONE Year makes you obsolete
TWO years out of the market makes you unemployable.
THREE years is fatal to any future career without a new education/degree.
I found your comments very insightful. It's hard to believe you couldn't find work with your skillset. I suspect that might be not true today. Were you willing to move or take a lesser paying job? What was the job market like during that year?

I'm more like your friend, that went for it at a young age. I moved on and off my boat several times. I didn't have that much trouble finding work. I am going to "retire broke" in a year or two, enough to buy a nicer boat and a year's worth of savings. Note that I too, plan to pick up work here and there, hopefully telecommuting. Companies are just now starting to realize that most work (we're talking internet related here) can be done from anywhere and the sky won't fall.

I am budgeting around 2k a month for slow coastal cruising, anchoring out all but once or twice a month.

The wise thing to do is take Tacoma's advice but life's too short to worry about it. On the OP's original subject, all the advice I have read from people that have done it is "Go For It....now rather than later!". It sounds like you have a skillset that will travel. Maybe you can barter some web work fixing some of these marina's awful websites.
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Old 22-06-2015, 21:17   #35
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Re: What can I afford?

I've had rental property while living overseas in the past. Even with a good property manager (way tougher to find than you'd expect!) I wouldn't do it again. While property prices in the US are generally a bit cheaper than Canada,

Personally, unless you can afford to put over 30% down, I think finding a property that generates enough income to cover the mortgage, maintenance expense AND sock away a bit to cover emergency expenses may be the unicorn of the investment world......especially if you're also paying management fees. But your mileage may vary.

Just my thoughts.

Mark
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Old 22-06-2015, 22:43   #36
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Re: What can I afford?

Yeah I'm not getting into the real estate market. It was an idea that went in one ear, bounced around a bit, then found its way out the other. I guess in this case my eyes are my ears.

I have a few ideas for some small businesses that may generate trickle income if I'm lucky. I'm not shooting for success in the traditional sense, I'm shooting for something that will cover some of my expenses.

I might look into doing some consulting as well, but I'll see if there are any practical ways to make that happen on the go.

We got a bit off topic:
I sat down and did some number crunching and conservative planning and am looking for a boat in the 15-45K range. I think I'm willing to spend closer to the higher end of the spectrum if I find a really good deal, or a boat in exceptional condition (lower refit costs). The most realistic value is 30-35K.

Boats I've identified as relatively safe choices:
(in approximate order of how much pocket damage they'll do)

Bayfield 32C
Allied Seawind 32
Downeaster 32
Pearson 35
Westsail 32
Alberg 37 (if a good deal comes up)

If I expand my boat-budget for whatever reason (like money falls into my lap):
Valiant 37
Tayana 37
etc.
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Old 23-06-2015, 11:45   #37
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Re: What can I afford?

You may have read too many blogs, I don't know. Here is one by a good friend who just went around the world in three years aboard his Beneteau First 37. He writes a lot about the cost of cruising.

Slick's Adventure | But Hardly anything works!

I also like the work done by Kelly and Kelly Waterhouse.

Sailing The Waterhouse » one wave at a time

As for how much can "I" afford? I have spent years researching the question. If you choose the lifestyle, you can make it work. How much does it cost to live in a house, on a farm, or in NY City. People of all income and experience levels do it so it must be doable. I wouldn't spend much on complexity, though.
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Old 23-06-2015, 12:42   #38
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Re: What can I afford?

Hi Ryban , I see you are looking at Westsails . Here are some websites you might be interested in . The last one is really good . One thing it covers is the re fit they did before they took off , don't let it scare you !
WESTSAIL - WORLD CRUISER YACHT CO.
WOA Home page
Sailing is a Contact Sport | Sundowner Sails Again
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Old 23-06-2015, 15:55   #39
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Re: What can I afford?

Ryban, if you can afford a little more, take a look at the Canadian Sailcraft 34....separate shower.....mmm.
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Old 23-06-2015, 18:41   #40
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Re: What can I afford?

Lots of negativity on here. Of you want to take off and go sailing- take off and go sailing, all this doom and gloom.

I took a year off my career to go tool around India looking for good times in my 20's. Took another 4 years off in my thirties to fart around in on party boats in my 30's and my career is well on track with a pension that will allow me to retire at 50 or retire very comfortably at 60 (more likely because I didn't have any kids until I was a bit older).

Unfortunately I find it difficult to answer your original question in terms of a percentage of what you make.

My observations are that a single guy should be able to get something comfortable and with the systems you need in the 28-33' range for under $20k.

Fancy electronics will kill your budget and will be obsolete in 3 weeks any way. I've seen no statistics to make me believe they make boats any safer either, they seem only to increase the navigational risks people take. Of course they're installed on commercial vessels where profit is the primary driving force.

Look for a sound hull, well maintained engine and not too raggity sails. Also, keep an eye out for something with a decent fridge and stove.

Seperate showers are nice to have, but may put the price up significantly.

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Old 23-06-2015, 20:14   #41
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Re: What can I afford?

I am not sure it is about percentages. To me it is a nominal matter. Say a decent boat for one or intimate two will cost you something upwards of 20K?

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Old 23-06-2015, 20:18   #42
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Re: What can I afford?

Good advice you don't want to hear isn't negativity, it's good advice that you don't want to hear.

Everyone speaks from their experience, their biases, and their personal philosophy. People don't ask for advice looking for a cheerleading squad, they ask advice to be sure they've thoroughly evaluated the risks and really figured the costs so they don't wind up with unexpected consequences.

It's does the asker a disservice to not provide the benefit of one's experience. OP will read through and make the right decision for OP. As it should be.


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Old 24-06-2015, 04:56   #43
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Re: What can I afford?

Went back to original post/question. Let's consider, for a moment, that the boat is just a residence. A house budget would be a reasonable starting point. What do folks do, spend a third of income on house/living and maintenance? Then there is food and personal maintenance. The "voyage" for house-people is entertainment and guests. All are functions of where you live and how you live. Same for living aboard.

I suspect that you could use "house" as a basis for starting your boat-life spread sheet. The differences being that later on, "voyaging" the cost of food, entertainment and guests is going to change a lot. In the cruiser blogs one reads that $2500/mo is a pretty good lifestyle. This assumes the boat is paid for in full. The site, Interview with a Cruiser, is a fantastic resource even if a bit dated. The INTERVIEW WITH A CRUISER Project

The next part of your spread sheet has to list boat parts and their replacement costs. This will drive your choice of size and condition of yacht. 35 footer, no windlass, 40 footer, windlass... for example. And so on with halyards, sails, standing rigging.

For our little 7,000 pound ocean racer that we also cruise, the boat was half the cost of the project in five years. The same length sloop at 10,000 pounds is about half again as much to do the same distance double handed events. Weight is a significant component of operation cost: heavier boats need bigger stuff. Anyway, list the variables and you will see some patterns. (We fell in love with our boat and just bought her. That's a variable, I suppose, who falls in love with what?)

Interesting conversation. Thanks for starting it.
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Old 24-06-2015, 11:16   #44
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Re: What can I afford?

1) I'm 28 and fresh into a relatively cozy job after 5 years as a broke-ass grad student. Prior to this job, I didn't really having any savings, so my current income is the only money to my name.

>>> no savings, first job, no university debt? good!

2) I have no debt, good credit, and very little money tied up in assets -- most of which I would likely liquidate before I set sail.

>>> no debt, credit rating and crediting levels based on first job earnings, if you liquidate assets you cannot turn them into investments equals you need more funds upfront,

3) My tentative plan is to keep the job sufficiently long enough that I feel I can afford to cruise for a solid year or two unencumbered,

>>> as you keep on working, you WILL find this point moving ahead of you, vanishing at times; to most, the point is their retirement point, if they live that long,

4) then work as needed/wanted, depending on what I want to do from there

>>> likely only if your education is towards a free lance job, not likely as you stated "cozy job" @1), if you want to free lance later, start free lancing now, be ahead of the game, build your portfolio and your client base NOW,

5) I've been been reading everything I can find and have seen a lot of different opinions abound on "how big and how much".

>>> different people, different mindsets, different budgets, swallow it,

6) Solo liveaboard cruiser

>>> imagine 25 to 35 ft bracket,

7) Blue water capable

>>> imagine +40ft bracket,

8) Option to accommodate a crew member or two along the way (i.e. separate sleeping arrangements)

>>> imagine a modern layout, or else a bigger, old style boat,

9) In decent shape, but am willing and prepared to spend considerable time and money making it sea-worthy

>>> imagine 30k+ bracket (at around 30' LOA), then the price grows in a non-linear manner; willing fine but how able?

10) I plan to rake in the money for 2 years and then set sail. However, I want to be living aboard as soon as I can make happen.

>>> imagine putting aside some 60k in two years, that's 2k+ savings a month, you have a hella va job! congrats!

11) What percent of my budget should be spent on the boat itself?

>>> about 50% in the boat at roughly 60k budget, then two years of being another marina hobo, then what?

YMMV, see 5)

If you find any negativity just think it must be met with apparent happygoluckility. Otherwise the world would not be in balance. And it is.

Fair winds,

Cheers,
b.
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Old 24-06-2015, 13:55   #45
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Re: What can I afford?

Yes -- I came here for critical feedback as well as supportive feedback, and I'm happy to be getting both.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm young and dumb, and my passions drive me.

I used the word "cozy" because it's cozy for me. I come from a lower-middle class upbringing and never had any luxuries or money for things like college ready and waiting for me. I went to a state school because it was cheap, worked my ass off, got into a prestigious PhD program. PhD programs in science/engineering are paid for by various sources (not yourself), but I also worked hard to secure my own funding.

What I'm trying to say is that it took many years of hard work to get what I consider to be a good, but modest income, and yes, I plan to squander it all for an unconventional lifestyle.

I've been doing some careful budgeting and believe that a 20-40K boat is well within my means, and I'd only go outside this range for an exceptional deal. This leaves me about 2.5K/mo for 2.5 years of cruising if I leave exactly 2 years after my employment (this accounts for 15K in refit/prep costs).

I like the smaller boats for an individual living space, but I see myself entertaining at every opportunity, and am still leaning towards a 37 or 38 in the 40K range. Please though, talk me out of it if you think it's a bad move. Remember -- I'm young and dumb.
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