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Old 22-09-2013, 18:48   #16
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
My interpretation of the OP was that he was looking for builders that were in current production. If so, that seems to eliminate many of the suggested marques... to say nothing of the performance issue!

Cheers,

Jim

Dont think so..

My initial list is:
Cape George
Bristol Channel Cutter
Morris Leigh?--your thoughts
Morris Annie?--your thoughts
Others....?

If i understand few builders make full keels this days , Ip,s example...
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Old 22-09-2013, 18:49   #17
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if you gonna add hans christian, you may as well add others from same yards--formosa, ct, hardin, hudson...island trader--all made in same yards with same materials and workers as hans christian.
baba, panda, southern cross, westsail32,42,43..... rafiki, islander freeport, fantasia,
cabo rico....cheoy lee....
there are many to consider--
lord nelson
tayana 37, 43..
devries lynch

why you talk such lie??
formosa, ct hardin, full keels are designed for trade winds sailing and the seas that accompany them.

full keels are made for non-maneuvering situations, not coastal cruising--is why they are so deep.
I no lie zeehaq.

Deep sea there's nothing to hit. But there are big waves , fin and spade are proven to be more efficient hydrodynamically, better more response etc. less wetted area means less resistance etc faster

Full keels offer more protection , which is useful if you rock jump or want to dry out against a harbour wall etc

Remember Bristol Channel cutters sailed . .... The Bristol Channel

Dave
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Old 22-09-2013, 19:02   #18
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

i can tell you fact from being there i wouod much ratehr bee on ocean inmy full keeled barge than in my fin spade ericson---or the seidelmann i sailed gom--rodlmao--i am CRUISING not RACING there is a difference--and full keel with barn door rudder are much more comfortable to sail in deep water and seas and winds.
try it. .
you will see exactly as i have seen.
i used to be dead set on cruising my ericson--lol until i cruised a seidelmann sloop--no, thank you--never again. i dont care if the beer is cold---you chill it.
i will get there , relaxed and rested, when i get there. i am CRUISING. and i will; sail in comfort. i am not in a hurry, for a reason--btdt, worked my ass off---full keel was designed for cruising the trade winds with the seas that accompany them.
fin and spade were made for day and weekend cruising and racing --they are not a comfort item and suffer heavy weather helm in any kinds of winds
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Old 22-09-2013, 19:07   #19
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

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Well, he said "used is essential".

Mark
Oops, so he did... I was looking at the title!

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Old 22-09-2013, 19:10   #20
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Actually Zee the flat bottomed square rigger was the ultimate down wind sailing machine

Keels came about as fore and aft sails were added and progress to wind ward was possible. Full keels were primarily a function of wooden boat construction

Computer modelling and advanced materials show the advantage of fin keel and spade or semi spade rudder. It's why almost 100% of boat manufacturers fit them

Dave
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Old 22-09-2013, 19:25   #21
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

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HR hasnt made a full keel boat in generations, Najad never did to my knowledge , nor is Rustler, etc

These are fin and skeg boats , good ones, of course.

Anyway why the OP wants a full keel is beyond us

Dave
OP said 'used'.

Rustler 36 NOT a full keel boat? Not available new? etc

These are full keel boats. Good ones, off course.

You got me on Najad though - I always imagined 34 to be so old that they had to have full keel ... OOOOPS. It is as you said: long fin keel + skeg.

So I withdraw Najads and I forward Vindos.

Must admit not all of my suggestions sail in a stellar manner but they all sail fine. Helmsman sails very well and I can imagine Rustler does too.

Laurin is another design that sails very well and has full keel.

Plenty of choice.

b.
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Old 22-09-2013, 19:29   #22
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

tayana 37, but then i am a fanboy. i am quite impressed with hull construction quality.
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Old 22-09-2013, 19:36   #23
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pirate Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

Cornish Pilot Cutter... only 30ft tho'
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Old 22-09-2013, 19:42   #24
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

Some forms of underwater appendages are better in some aspects (e.g. racing, light wind sailing, etc.) others are better in other aspects (e.g course stability, seaworthiness in bad seas, etc.)

Bristol Channnel cutters are being sailed everywhere - e.g. round the world by the Pardeys. Do not cross them off yet.

Boats should not be build to hit containers, but if the objective of the OP were to sail ocean passages, they might be better off in a boat that has less risk of a dramatic and possibly invalidating structural damage that might make reaching a landfall a most difficult task.

Cruising is not about speed and efficiency, we all know it. Strong structure, easy motion, cargo carrying capacity, etc. may all be very high on the list of any prospective cruiser.

Let each cruiser chose for themselves. Let's not bash for bashing's sake ;-)

b.
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Old 22-09-2013, 19:44   #25
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

There is another "current" builder that always seems to be left out in these discussions - yourself.

I'm mostly familiar with Bruce Roberts but many DIY designs have full keels. Indeed Bruce Roberts now has a "safety skeg" on many of his plans that may give some of the advantages of both full and fin keels.

And of course his "Spray" designs should all come with full keels (some may have centreboards!).

This approach is most feasible for the aspiring cruiser who has the building space, access and the years needed for such a project.
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Old 22-09-2013, 20:13   #26
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

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Some forms of underwater appendages are better in some aspects (e.g. racing, light wind sailing, etc.) others are better in other aspects (e.g course stability, seaworthiness in bad seas, etc.)

Bristol Channnel cutters are being sailed everywhere - e.g. round the world by the Pardeys. Do not cross them off yet.

Boats should not be build to hit containers, but if the objective of the OP were to sail ocean passages, they might be better off in a boat that has less risk of a dramatic and possibly invalidating structural damage that might make reaching a landfall a most difficult task.

Cruising is not about speed and efficiency, we all know it. Strong structure, easy motion, cargo carrying capacity, etc. may all be very high on the list of any prospective cruiser.

Let each cruiser chose for themselves. Let's not bash for bashing's sake ;-)

b.
+1

Whats the diference between a bene 31 and full keeler of the same size and similar sail plan, both boats can reach same destination, probably both boats are able to make 5 and 6 kts average, so i guess is a matter of compromise as usual, the bene is not going to surprise you because it have a fin and spade rudder unless you are in tight spaces docking ,or racing.... its amazing how people relate full keel with slow and boring!! there is lots of slow pigs full keels out there same as fiasco fin keels out there,, if you want hull protection, go for the full keel, if you want lively light hulls surfing waves go for the fin keel,, is a matter of taste..

Both designs turn to port or starboard , both designs are able to hold a compass bearing, so guess what? Fact is we never see a full keel boat loosing the keel, when we see fin keels boats lossing the keel, so far so good is rare , can i trust a fin keel boat in the deep, yes sure, if is well made it, groundings , collisions, beaching, pounding in seas are the full keel territory, apart from that not big deal, docking is a pain in the ass in most full keelers, the weight to in light air, some smart sailors solve that with a good stock of well designed light air sails..

I have a video from one of my transats from Las Palmas to Antigua in Angantyr, a 62 ft steel cutter , full keel, weight about 35 tones, doing 10 to 11 kts with a genaker and main for days ... can you call this slow??

Cheers...
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Old 22-09-2013, 20:30   #27
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

...and of course the Hallberg Rassy 35 Rasmus!
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Old 22-09-2013, 21:04   #28
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

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Oh , offshore a full keel is the worst thing, you want hydrodynamic efficiency not full keel. fin and spade is best offshore.

Full keels are good for coastal rock jumping

dave

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Old 22-09-2013, 21:39   #29
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Old 22-09-2013, 21:51   #30
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Re: What builder makes good quality full keel sailboats?

How about a Lyle Hess designed Nor'sea 27? It's slightly smaller than what you're looking for but maybe an option. There are not many used one's out there and usually sold through the owners group anyway. The BCC would be a good one to get with more interior space to move around in.

If I was able to get a larger one, I would go with Cape George. But, I'll just stick with my Nor'sea.
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