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Old 23-07-2016, 19:30   #31
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

I see nobody has mentioned the Kelly/Peterson 44/46. Worth looking at I think.
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Old 23-07-2016, 20:06   #32
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

Thanks for the ideas!

Bavaria has a nice layout, but wood decks, heads that turn into shower, swim platform, and looks just like the Ikea-ish Beneteau/Jeanneau.

FP cats are great, especially for chartering, but with the only helm being completely unprotected saildrive aft motors, they don't interest me as much as other cats (they are pretty, though)

Those Taswells look nice! I'll need to look more into those.

I've been on several Hylas. Amazing fit and finish. I hear they are awesome. I just really don't like those high compact center cockpits. I know they have their merits in high seas. I just don't find them comfortable. That's where you spend the majority if the time, and that just wouldn't work. Same for the Peterson's.

Great ideas all, keep 'em coming!
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Old 23-07-2016, 20:08   #33
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

Thanks for the ideas!

Bavaria has a nice layout, but wood decks, heads that turn into shower, swim platform, and looks just like the Ikea-ish Beneteau/Jeanneau.

FP cats are great, especially for chartering, but with the only helm being completely unprotected saildrive aft motors, they don't interest me as much as other cats (they are pretty, though)

Those Taswells look nice! I'll need to look more into those.

I've been on several Hylas. Amazing fit and finish. I hear they are awesome. I just really don't like those high compact center cockpits. I know they have their merits in high seas. I just don't find them comfortable. That's where you spend the majority if the time, and that just wouldn't work. Same for the Peterson's.

Great ideas, keep 'em coming!
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Old 23-07-2016, 22:10   #34
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

How about another Perry design, Norseman 447? Fits most of your requirements, I believe.
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Old 23-07-2016, 22:54   #35
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

Norseman looks great! However, this is what John Neal has to day: Have held their value well but require a lot of maintenance. Rusty fuel tanks an expensive repair issue"
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Old 23-07-2016, 23:39   #36
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

Inaccessible rusty (steel) fuel tanks are a common problem with most of the taiwan boats.
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Old 23-07-2016, 23:39   #37
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

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Originally Posted by D.R.D. View Post
Norseman looks great! However, this is what John Neal has to day: Have held their value well but require a lot of maintenance. Rusty fuel tanks an expensive repair issue"
A close friend whose Norseman 447 was next to my Caliber 40 for many years in Washington replaced his original tanks with custom built tanks before he left on his first of three cruises from Seattle to SW Mexico. The first cruise ended up in Ft Lauderdale, FL. The 2nd was Seattle - Mexico - Hawaii - Seattle.

The Norseman 447 is a Perry design and would come close to fitting all your requirements, except the price - more like $225K or a bit more. The boat is rock solid and a great sailer. I've done quite a few miles on it and was impressed with the sailing performance.

My friend has sailed the boat twice along the Northern California/Southern Oregon coast in 50+ knots and very large breaking seas. The boat handled those conditions with grace and security.

He replaced all the chainplates, at great expense, in 2010 before his 2nd sail from Seattle to Mexico. The fiberglass was wet and the metal was rotten.

The other concern I would have about the Norseman 447 is the steep/deep ladder from the center cockpit down to the galley/nav station. It is a long, almost vertical ladder and would be a challenge for young children and might be a hazard.

The friend, his wife, and pre-teen son left Seattle on their first cruise, spent two years in Mexico, and another two years getting to Florida. During much of that time their early-20's daughter was also on the boat with them. So, I image it would fit your requirements if the two kids could share a cabin.

I've done a lot of work on the Norseman 447 and am very impressed with the build quality.
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Old 23-07-2016, 23:46   #38
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

[QUOTE]
He replaced all the chainplates, at great expense, in 2010 before his 2nd sail from Seattle to Mexico. The fiberglass was wet and the metal was rotten.
Quote:

[/QUOTEI've done a lot of work on the Norseman 447 and am very impressed with the build quality. ]
Is it just me, or do these statements seem contradictory?

Jim
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Old 23-07-2016, 23:57   #39
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

[QUOTE=Jim Cate;2173157]
Quote:
He replaced all the chainplates, at great expense, in 2010 before his 2nd sail from Seattle to Mexico. The fiberglass was wet and the metal was rotten.

Is it just me, or do these statements seem contradictory?

Jim
26-years and 20,000 miles at sea? Taiwan builders were still learning the fine details in the early '80s.

Hull sections, bulkhead tabbing, wiring, engine beds, hose layout, plumbing runs, original teak deck, stanchion beddings...etc are all things I've worked on and all seemed well thought out and executed.

I was wrong about the price - there are three for sale for less than $190,000.
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Old 24-07-2016, 02:02   #40
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

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Which 40` cats are you referring to?
Thanks
There are a number of cats that could meet your criteria, including FP's and Leopards etc. The FP's do not have exposed helms - perhaps confusing them with other cats? I looked and can see several Leopard 45's that have price tags of around $220k - at least one would accept an offer within your budget. There are just so many boats that fit within your criteria.
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Old 24-07-2016, 03:06   #41
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

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Huh, I was at that Richmond show. I must have missed that Passport.
Tom, what make is your 41'?
Those Nauticat 385s look sweet!
The Pearson's are interesting as well.
Catalina 400 mkII has some nice layouts, but I'm not certain of their seaworthiness - comparable to a Jeanneau?
So far, I think the Tartan 4300 comes closest, but that's some serious coin.
I have the Tartan 4100, which is a great boat but it doesn't meet some of your criteria such as it has a spade rudder (which is a debate all to itself, covered in depth here somewhere) and the tankage is moderate (you would need/want a third water tank or watermaker). it was available in a 3-stateroom layout but don't know how many of those were built. I have the 2 stateroom/1 aft head but it does have a separate vanity sink forward. Great offshore galley, some models had a forward facing nav station, some outboard facing, both quite decent. flip down swim platform which is sweet for loading the dink and swimming/showering.
The 4100 is quite similar to the 4300 by the way and there's a few (8, I think) listed on YW at the moment.
Tom
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Old 24-07-2016, 03:48   #42
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

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With 3 cabins, I see no reason 5 people can't comfortably sail on 40' boat. Done it many times. We're all family, so we are used to each other ;-)
Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are we talking about a weekend boat (with maybe a few week long trips per year) or are we talking about full time live aboard. When you mentioned "bluewater", I assumed this was long term live aboard cruising.

Weekend boat, no problem. Our little 34' cat could handle 6-8 for a weekend but for liveaboard, those people come with more than a duffle bag of clothes.

Not saying it can't be done but unless you've done similar, expect it to be a whole different level of "used to each other" if there are 5 of you along with all your belongings, provisions, spares, etc....in a 40' boat.
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Old 24-07-2016, 04:36   #43
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Inaccessible rusty (steel) fuel tanks are a common problem with most of the taiwan boats.
I know that some of the 80's Tayana boats had 'black iron' tanks, and I'm sure there were others. Tayana tanks like in the 37 were really epoxy coated steel. The Taswell uses aluminum, in a cradle a few inches off the hull under the queen aft berth. There are two items that always need to be addressed with any metal tank (as opposed to fiberglass tanks), water in the fuel and having the exterior bottom of the tank getting wet if the tank is sitting right on the inside of the hull.
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Old 24-07-2016, 08:55   #44
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

Anyone know much about the Moody 45ac or the Shannon 43?
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Old 24-07-2016, 10:41   #45
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Re: What boats might fit these criteria?

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Anyone know much about the Moody 45ac or the Shannon 43?
I have seen an early 45AC at the dock. I think very few were built later.

At the dock (back in maybe 2013?) she looked top notch finish, on par with any other serious boatyard. I liked the long trunk cabin and I liked her two fore sails set-up. I can remember the side decks looked narrow, but not too narrow, just compared to the overall beam they looked wee.

This boat does not meet a number of your criteria. It has in-mast furling, it has spade rudder and it has VP engine, it is not a cutter rig, etc. It is also beyond your price bracket.

A Bill Dixon (I think) design claimed to sail extremely well in Med conditions (there was a review in one of British sailing magazines some time back). You will have to think twice before adding davits, dinghy or any other heavy stuff high up - look up her ballast ratio to see why.

I think this boat can be a great buy for someone looking for good performance on crossings. She is light, flat and has plenty of beam well aft. Will go to the West Indies like on rails.

b.
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