What Boat?

[Arktouros]

Hello,
My father and I are on the market for a used sailboat. My dad always liked the fishers, he loves the fishers and I have come to like them too.
I ve read a lot of the threads in this forum about new against vs old. Big vs small etc. and i have questions.
We have found 3 Fisher 37 at different prices (our price range is quite modest for this kind of boat) and we are getting lost a bit.
We are considering also a Nautcat 38, it seems to have nicer interiors. I live in Scotland but the boat will sail down to Greece in the summer.
I wonder if I can post here picasa links for you to take a look at the boats that we saw and give us an opinion.
Also the boats that we found are in places that we do not know anyone there. I don't mean scary places or anything, nothing like that. We found one in Ireland, one in Bristol, one in Scotland, one in Wales, one in Holland... you get the picture. So one of the questions is how do you find a good surveyor, and it might sound like a bizarre worry but I am Greek (no one is extremely surprised if someone gets bribed) how do you make sure that the surveyor is not a good friend of the seller or broker? Yes I am a bit paranoid like that . How can you make sure that the rigging is still good, there is no osmosis, and the engine is in good condition etc?
How do you find someone to fix it with out looking over his shoulder? Making sure that they do what they said that their are going to do?
Any kind of advise is very welcome .
Thank you in advance.

[Lady Circumnavi]

Arktouros,
The boats you mentioned are in a marina or boatyard. Start there. Ask around about a good surveyor. Get a couple of names. Ask for references and follow up. Trust your own eyes about the general condition of the boat. If it looks like it has been abandonned, your surveyor will have to do a lot of poking around. If it appears to have been well maintained, that gives you some reassurance. Small marina operators may know the boat's history. Talk to the owner. You can tap into "second opinion" services on specific boats. Previous owners will offer advice and tell what specific problems they encountered. I believe Cruising World Magazine still offers such a service. There are others for which you can pay a fee for the opinions. Starting with a forum like this one is also helpful. You'll get some input on the boats you mentioned. Obviously a well built boat with a pilot house is important where you live. (We started climbing Munros in the NW Highlands years ago and the weather can turn nasty very fast.) Most people can't stay in business, whether as a boat mechanic or a surveyor if they rip people off. Trust your instincts about people, ask questions, and get it in writing.

[Arktouros]

I ve got a couple more questions while I am on this quest.
I was told that the rigging of a sailboat has to be changed every 9 to 10 years. Does the riffing need some attention, or replacing after some time?
Also engine wise what is more or less the lifespan of an engine in hours?

Cheers

[Lady Circumnavi]

I assume we're talking abut a diesel. They can live forever if well-maintained. Injectors might need replacing, water impellers, hoses, etc., but the engine keeps cranking. Most old engines can be overhauled. As to rigging, whether rod or wire, rigging can develop hairline cracks that are hard to detect. Again it's frequently the connecting parts that show the wear. If you buy a boat that's been sailed hard and is older than 10-15 years, it would be a good idea to replace the rigging for the extra degreee of safety if gives you. Losing your rigging can mean losing your mast, which can injure somebody, leave you stranded, cost lots of dollars to ship in a new mast, etc. Why not spend the money up front to avoid problems later? Although a surveyor can render an opinion about the riiging on the boat you decide to buy, that's just an educated guess about the condition. He can look to see if there is anything obvious that shows like broken strands in the wire. I like to evaluate risk decisions based on the consequences of a failure. With rigging, the consequences of failure can be life threatening.

[Arktouros]

Ok you said it... life threatening all the rest is just decoration. Rigging needs to be younger than 10 years old.
Good to know about the engines, I did not know.
What about the riffing? Does it need to be replaced too or something special?

Cheers

[Tropic Cat]

Lady circumnavigator has given solid advice.

I can only add that participants on this forum are in every country in Europe. I'm certain one would be kind enough to look over any boat you may be interested in before you take the time and trouble to examine it yourself. This could possibly save you some money in the long run. Many boat brokers list boats as in sailway condition that are clearly not.

I'd also like to welcome both of you to the forum.

[Boracay]

You mention buying the boat in the United Kingdom and sailing to Greece.

I seem to recall a few reports that this trip is enough to test the stoutest of heats.

The boats you describe sound well suited to soggy old England, but may be less useful in sunny Greece.

It looks like you have your hearts set on traditional boats. May I suggest that for what you are planning to spend in England you could get a nice Beneteau or Jeaneau (or similar) in Greece without that very painful sounding trip. (The Bay of Biscay sounds lovely with a bit of a gale...)

Why not fly to Greece, charter a boat for a few days and see what you think?

[Arktouros]

We have sailed in Greece a few times. Most of the times on chartered boats. I think Boracay that you are quite right about the type of boat, although it has to be argued that Greece has a autumn and a winter too.

But most importantly for the last 15 years I have been seeing my dad go weak in the knees when he saw a fisher, or a pilot house that resembled it, and point and look and seem as a kid in front of a chocolate factory. I suppose there are a lot of for and against arguments. I probably stand somewhere in the middle. The Nauticat seems like a good middle solution. But I have come to like the fisher a lot .

There is also an other explanation that i can give you which will make more sense, we would like to able later on, to go traveling on the boat. Fishers seem ideal for that.

But yes we have sailed in Jeanneaus and Beneteaus and i ve seen the Bavarias too. To tell you the truth the Bavarias seem to be better build but i cannot be sure of this. Anyway we have not completely decided against that kind of option too.

As for the trip UK to Greece yes the bay of Biscay seems scary to me too . I ll be enquiring today to find out prices to send a boat to the south of France and launch it from there. That cost will have to be added to budget too .

[Arktouros]

So I gave a random company a call just to get an idea of how much does it cost to mount a fisher boat on a truck and send it to France. And it varies depending from where (duh!! I know...). From South England it is something around 4300£ to 5000 something from Scotland.
I ll check how much it costs to load it on a ship.

One more question regarding rules, is it ok to post links to pictures of a boat we are considering in order to get opinions?

Cheers

[Lady Circumnavi]

Arktouros,
Anyone who has been on the water during the Meltemi in the Greek Isalnds would love a heavily laid up pilot house rig.

[beneteau-500]

well after 17 yrs living in the cyclades ( naxos Island ) I'll stick with what i have

[Lady Circumnavi]

Touchez! I used to sell beneteaus into the Moorings Fleet. I envy your boat and living in the islands!

[barnakiel]

Fishers and Nauticats nice for slow cruising and well made. They break and you fix them. They are pricey though.

b.

[Arktouros]

Ok so I read three times the rules of the forum and i think that with links i am standing on thin red line.
So i thought that i will post a link to pictures of a boat that the broaker send me, they are no where near a broakers site, they are on a picassa albhum so hopefully no one will think that the is something commercial behind the whole thing, except me thinking if it worth the trouble to get on airplane and go see it. Also, moderator, please feel free (I know you do already) to erase the post or the link, as really i am not sure if i am stepping out of bounds.

Lady Marian

Ok so it needs quite a bit of work I ve been told, this is from the email of the broker:

The topsides were hand painted at some stage. It looks well from the distance but when you get closer they do need attention.
All the gel coat on deck looks a bit tired and really needs to be painted. Some of the varnish work is OK but alot of it does need attention.
The bottom looks excellent.

Down below, the boat needs a good cleaning. First impression is not bad but when you start poking under floorboards etc. you soon realise she needs a bit of love and attention.
The engine and gear looks good. Sails look OK, sailcovers need replacing . Standing Rigging probably needs replacing.

The boat is lying in a boatyard where any work that needs doing could be done by them. Ryan & Roberts do have have a good reputation.

Overall there is a lot of boat there for the money. She travelled up from Portugal in 2006 so there should be no reason why she shouldn't be able to head back there once a few improvements were made.

And this too:

I would guess 15,000 euro would go a long way to putting her right. The varnish work down below bulkheads etc are not bad.
The varnish work outside needs most of the attention.
You would need to decide what work you would get done in Ireland etc.
If you were going south with the boat it might make more sense to get the varnishing & painting done in warmer climes etc.

I seem to remember that the boat needs new rigging also, something was changed at some point not soo long ago but the owner is not sure of what etc etc...

Do you think it is worth our while to go and see it? Or do you think it is a crazy idea to embark in such a adventure from faraway?

[bobelon]

My 2 bits. Pay the $ for a well maintained and upgraded boat that is currently being used. Avoid "project" boats. We paid too much for boat and it was worth every penny. I learned this the hard way by buying a number of "fixer uppers". Previous posts about trusting your instincts are well taken. Also don't fixate on a specific make or model, you may overlook just the right boat for you. We looked for two years for just the right monohull and a cat smacked us right between the eyes. Boy are we glad we took a Sun. afternoon to go look at this cat a friend had seen.