..What about the Bavaria??

[garrobito]

Surfing and checking sailboats I found several Bavaria for sale with good prices... I never sailed one but I have good references about this boat to use as a bluewater one.. Opinions?? experiences??
Thanks you in advance

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by garrobito

Surfing and checking sailboats I found several Bavaria for sale with good prices... I never sailed one but I have good references about this boat to use as a bluewater one.. Opinions?? experiences??
Thanks you in advance

This thread will probably get a lot of replies.

I've owned a Bavaria 33. i liked that boat and never had any problems whatsoever. I do not consider Bavaria a blue water boat (here I am assuming that you are using the term "blue water" to mean serious ocean crossing). Generally I find the GRP to be too thin and the rig/winches etc not heavy duty enough for withstanding potential ocean storms.

A number of them have circumnavigated so it can be done.

This is one subject (like anchors) where everyone o this forum has at least one opinion

[athene]

Some satisfied Bavaria owners will tell you they are perfectly sound for blue water cruising - but then someone who's crossed the Atlantic in an 18 footer will make the same claim for his own craft. It's all relative.

All I will say is that I've met professional skippers in the Med who refuse skippered charters on Bavarias, including one who lost a close friend skippering a particular example whose keel fell off in a strong meltemi.

They're very popular with charter fleets since they're built down to a price, but even they don't allow charter crews to take them to sea in seriously bad weather.

[SwissMocha]

I chartered a Bavaria 38 this past summer in Greece. No complaints. Was well maintained and handled well. Bavaria, Beneteau, Jeanneau, all similar in price and qualitiy in my opinion. Lots of people will disagree.

There are people who have done a circumnavigation with Bavarias, as there have been with Beneteaus and Jeanneaus. Personally I wouldn't want to go to the high latitudes with one of those...

Bavarias are - as mentioned before - popular with charter companies, therefore a lot of boats on the market and reasonably priced.

[Prairie Chicken]

Carsten is right. Lots of folks will weigh in to this one.

Count me as one who would never want one. Not only do we consider them to be poorly built, but also have poor designs inside and in the cockpit. We have a friend with a new one & hear often of his problems & frustrations. He does feel it sails well though.

This was the manufacturer who forced down the price--and quality--of production boats. For that reason alone I'm not a fan.

[carstenb]

I'll chime in again. I sailed my Bavaria around the Baltic, no tides and the waves are generally small (2-3 meters), but they are very steep and very short in wave length (almost like 2 meter high chop).

I never had any issues whatsoever with the boat.

I currently sail a Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3 and we're planning an RTW in it. But the Jeanneau vs. the Bavaria is thicker GRP and the rig/winches etc are much more heavy duty.

These boats regularly sail in the North Sea, the Biscay and the atlantic. They're good boats and do take a pounding. I'm quite confident in the Jeanneau, so far we've been out in 40+knots and not had any reason to be nervous.

Would I take one across the southern ocean around the horn? No probably not, but then, I don't intend to go there. Although, I'm sure the boat could handle it

[sailing mike]

Hi, A Bavaria for crossing oceans..... The answer depends on which Bavaria. The factory did make some very strongly built, and very good high seas worthy sailing boats. But!!!! That was before the factory changed production methods and design.

I have owned a 1995 Bavaria 44 for the last 14 years. Have sailed thousands of sea miles. Ireland to the Azores via Spain , Portugal, Madeira and back. Up and down the whole of the Atlntic coast many times. Around the Med...etc Winter and summer. The highest wind I have sailed in, in the boat was 56kts of Cadiz one November. Going to windward. With no problems. Coming back to Ireland from the Azores on time. Eight of the 10 day trip was gale force winds on the beam. In a gale of wind, NO monohull, is what anyone other than people who like to live inside a washing machine. What could be called comfortable. But if you do buy a 1995 Bavaria 44. She will look after you and anyone who sails with you! As mine has for me.

Someone in this discussion mentioned you will need to re-fit the boat. I would definitely agree with this. If you do go for one. I could give you advise and list of equipment which I have on my boat.

My opinion a 1995 Bavaria 44 with the deep keel option is the one....

best regards Mike

[sailing mike]

Sorry I forgot to add...

Have a look at the photos of my boat in my profile. A good looking, fast sailing boat? This was built before bavarias came up out of the water...turning, in my opinion, into marina caravans which can be moved

Mike

[ryon]

Originally Posted by athene

Some satisfied Bavaria owners will tell you they are perfectly sound for blue water cruising - but then someone who's crossed the Atlantic in an 18 footer will make the same claim for his own craft. It's all relative.

All I will say is that I've met professional skippers in the Med who refuse skippered charters on Bavarias, including one who lost a close friend skippering a particular example whose keel fell off in a strong meltemi.

They're very popular with charter fleets since they're built down to a price, but even they don't allow charter crews to take them to sea in seriously bad weather.

Funny, how you can find all views here! The two times I've crewed Bavarias have been once in the Greek Cycades, no drama, and once doing a Baja Bash up from Cabo. The Bash was plenty gnarly, I remember it was like being inside one of those hardware store paint shakers, while someone throws the machine violently down on a concrete floor at random moments. We actually did take a pan pan pan from another boat who thought they were losing their keel. Some racer, not a Bavaria.

Sure, I'll sail a Bavaria bluewater! Let me grab my foulies ...

[Eleuthera 2014]

Originally Posted by sailing mike

Hi, A Bavaria for crossing oceans..... The answer depends on which Bavaria. The factory did make some very strongly built, and very good high seas worthy sailing boats. But!!!! That was before the factory changed production methods and design.

I have owned a 1995 Bavaria 44 for the last 14 years. Have sailed thousands of sea miles. Ireland to the Azores via Spain , Portugal, Madeira and back. Up and down the whole of the Atlntic coast many times. Around the Med...etc Winter and summer. The highest wind I have sailed in, in the boat was 56kts of Cadiz one November. Going to windward. With no problems. Coming back to Ireland from the Azores on time. Eight of the 10 day trip was gale force winds on the beam. In a gale of wind, NO monohull, is what anyone other than people who like to live inside a washing machine. What could be called comfortable. But if you do buy a 1995 Bavaria 44. She will look after you and anyone who sails with you! As mine has for me.

Someone in this discussion mentioned you will need to re-fit the boat. I would definitely agree with this. If you do go for one. I could give you advise and list of equipment which I have on my boat.

My opinion a 1995 Bavaria 44 with the deep keel option is the one...
best regards Mike

I had a 1997 46 Exclusive built to the same philosophy as the 1995 44. She was tough and sailed well and fast because of a deep lead keel and tall rig. Any of the BAV Ocean series is apt for a RTW. Don't let the neigh sayers sway you; they have obviously not owned one.

Remember: Bavaria built semi custom boats until 1999. Then they went to a higher productivity program. Still does not mean they are worse than BenJen... in fact their hardware is known to be above spec and bought from the same manufacturers as Swan, HR, Oyster.

Now for a RTW, I chose an Amel... for its comfort.

[garrobito]

...Yes, I choose an Amel anytime... Great boats!!! Same with baltic or swan...

[Gypsy23]

Athene, before you make broad claims about a keel falling off in a Meltemi I think you need to be sure of the facts and state them. Where and when did this occur and what model Bavaria?

To my knowledge the only report of a keel falling off a Bavaria was in Croatia and the model was a Bavaria Match series, not the cruising series. It was racing and the Adriatic wind was a Bora. There are still unanswered questions about whether there was prior damage to the keel/hull. Yes, tragically a sailor died.

$$$ will tell you Bavarias are not the same as HRs, Amels, or Oysters but MANY of them cross the Atlantic and Pacific every year safely. Many more live the tough life of a charter boat in most cruising areas of the world.

As a Bavaria owner of 12 years (Bav44) I recognise what I have, a strong boat, which has served me well for the style of cruising I do - and there is plenty of Blue Water up and down the coasts of Australia.

[Harlequin]

I've used the Cruiser forums many times in the past - the combined wisdom of so many experienced sailors makes for a very useful resource. However, one has to expect and accept the odd ill-informed post and file it under cough, Bull***t. Perhaps one or two of the posts above fall under that category.

Anyway, this time I feel qualified to respond to the question about blue-water cruising in Bavarias with my experience: over 20,000 nm cruising in our Bavaria Vision 44 over the last 7 years. From Hong Kong we've cruised the Philippines, Malasia, Brunei, Palau, PNG, Australia, NZ, Fiji, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and presently back in Oz.

To keep this post manageably short, I give you 3 main considerations, also touched upon in previous responses:

- Bavaria or Swan, no yacht is going to be a sail-away blue-water cruiser from new. Or from second-hand ex-charter, deliciously cheap though they may seem. You're going to have to invest a lot of time and $$ bringing her up to spec. Obviously if you start with a basic Bavaria, this will read more like $$$$.

- You will need to carefully pick your model. NOT one of the old Match series (light-built for racing), and you'd have to think carefully about the size of the party cockpit in one of the new Farr-designed Visions.

- Lastly, size IS important. Personally, I wouldn't be looking at anything below 42 ft, not least because the spec of everything from rig to lay-up was carefully budgeted in the build, and below that LOA it all seems just a little too light-weight.

Yes, they are plastic-fantastics (we can't all afford a new Garcia 45 Expedition), but that alone shouldn't hold you back. Best of iuck!

All IMHO of course...

[barnakiel]

If I were to chose a bluewater one I would buy something better than a Bavaria.

If you like light boats like Bavarias, check our Arconas. They are like Bavaria in some ways but they sail way better. Then you have X-Yachts and the likes.

If you accept somewhat less lightly built boats, you may like HR, Morris, etc.

b.

[Harlequin]

Our previous boat was an X-Yacht, an IMX38.

She was very fast and we even raced her offshore (the 500nm South China Sea race) but boy, was she a wet boat out in the lumpy stuff.

Also suffered from severe corrosion of the x-frame, and osmosis though the honeycomb-cored hull.

I see they offer the Xc cruiser series now, hopefully more robustly (if heavier) built. A wee bit more expensive than a Bavaria Vision though.

See, now I've wandered off topic...