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Old 08-01-2012, 14:38   #121
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
My theory is the only objective opinion out there is the one who comes from the guy who prefaces his comments by saying everyone else is spewing manure. That must make him right!
Am I detecting some defective senses of humour? Lighten up! I know it's Winter and lots of folks are ice-bound but really... At least you can have a cold beer without a refrigerator.
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Old 08-01-2012, 14:42   #122
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Originally Posted by Bloodhound

Am I detecting some defective senses of humour? Lighten up! I know it's Winter and lots of folks are ice-bound but really... At least you can have a cold beer without a refrigerator.
If your post was meant humorous, it helps to add some smileys and stuff so that we, humor-defected ones, understand it

ciao!
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Old 08-01-2012, 14:56   #123
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
If your post was meant humorous, it helps to add some smileys and stuff so that we, humor-defected ones, understand it

ciao!
Nick.
Okay, Okay, Okay. Point taken. My posts here were intended to have a humerous component (but admittedly not 100% humour). My apologies for not prefacing my remarks with a warning about humour, or lack thereof. Ah yes, I almost forgot . Sometimes I confound and confuse my kids because they can't always tell when I'm kidding either. Case closed. I'm a guilty as sin. Time for a Hefeweizen.
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Old 08-01-2012, 15:38   #124
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Re: Westsail 32 - too short?

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This area is one of the places where the boat makes a difference. Although the W32 is a sturdy boat, it is also just 32' and that is too short imho to wander around these waters, as is being proven here...,,,

Nick.
Isn't that the exact same length - and similar traditional hull shape - to Vito Dumas and Robin Khox Johnston's boats? In fact Duma's was only 31ft.

Maybe it's the ketch rig that gets you round the capes? Glad I have one! Then again, experience probably also plays a factor, not to mention the fortitude of sailors before the invention of EPIRBs?

(Opps Nick - I just read some of the posts above and am adding I am not trying to start and argument or take a shot; just pointing out interesting historical facts)
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Old 08-01-2012, 19:12   #125
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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I am sorry but you are misinformed. Or you mix up racers with cruisers. Or both. Or you look at boats that are not suitable for a cruising couple. It is what the boat is designed for that is important. My 64' boat single hands much much easier than a W32, even when both go with battery switches in the off position.

cheers,
Nick.
Nick, could you please explain why a 64' boat is easier to single hand than a 32' boat. Thanks
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Old 08-01-2012, 19:32   #126
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Originally Posted by GWB

Nick, could you please explain why a 64' boat is easier to single hand than a 32' boat. Thanks
Because it was designed with a lot more knowledge, science and experience. A lot has happened since the W32 was designed.

There are also some obvious advantages of a larger boat: huge comfort improvement making it easier on he crew which is extra important for single handing; much more directional stability; extra weight means less effect from wind or propwalk when manouvering, etc.

In the case of Sundeer, it was specifically designed to be handled by a couple living aboard. For details, please read this piece from Brion Toss, who must be a credible figure for the W32 crowd I would think: http://www.briontoss.com/education/a.../miscmar04.htm
Note the part about forgetting to steer the boat

I have sailed a 31' boat for 17 years (!!!) and it was the most difficult boat I sailed with. A 41' was much easier and the current 64' almost feels like cheating.

ciao!
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Old 08-01-2012, 19:43   #127
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Because it was designed with a lot more knowledge, science and experience. A lot has happened since the W32 was designed.

There are also some obvious advantages of a larger boat: huge comfort improvement making it easier on he crew which is extra important for single handing; much more directional stability; extra weight means less effect from wind or propwalk when manouvering, etc.

In the case of Sundeer, it was specifically designed to be handled by a couple living aboard. For details, please read this piece from Brion Toss, who must be a credible figure for the W32 crowd I would think: Brion Toss Yacht Riggers Fairleads Newsletter
Note the part about forgetting to steer the boat

I have sailed a 31' boat for 17 years (!!!) and it was the most difficult boat I sailed with. A 41' was much easier and the current 64' almost feels like cheating.

ciao!
Nick.
I see. It must be near impossibly difficult for you to sail a 9' dinghy then?

Knowledge science and experience went into the sundeer 64 then huh? With this logic then a new 350' modern design cruising sailboat should be easier to single hand. Also, if this 350' was to have a comfort number mattress, this would also help I suppose?
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Old 08-01-2012, 19:49   #128
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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There are also some obvious advantages of a larger boat
like being able to pay around 500,000 dollars more than for the westsail
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Old 08-01-2012, 19:55   #129
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

My Friend had a factory finished 28' nice little boat. I think finding a factory finished one is important but I don't know that for sure. Also I think only come with Tiller steering. A 30' Baba or even better a 33 Hans christian is a nice alternative a little more money though. Good luck, you may even be able to pick up a 38HC that needs some TLC.
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Old 08-01-2012, 19:57   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWB

I see. It must be near impossibly difficult for you to sail a 9' dinghy then?

Knowledge science and experience went into the sundeer 64 then huh? With this logic then a new 350' modern design cruising sailboat should be easier to single hand. Also, if this 350' was to have a comfort number mattress, this would also help I suppose?
It isn't impossible for me, I did competition Laser sailing for 6 years before switching to competition windsurfing. If you would have, you would also agree that it is more difficult than a keel yacht, especially when crossing oceans and such.

Your logic about 350' boats does not compute. It is actually so silly that I will not even explain why. The last part I can't even read being sober lol

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 08-01-2012, 20:02   #131
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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It isn't impossible for me, I did competition Laser sailing for 6 years before switching to competition windsurfing. If you would have, you would also agree that it is more difficult than a keel yacht, especially when crossing oceans and such.

Your logic about 350' boats does not compute. It is actually so silly that I will not even explain why. The last part I can't even read being sober lol

ciao!
Nick.
I know! Funny thing that logic.
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Old 08-01-2012, 20:07   #132
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like being able to pay around 500,000 dollars more than for the westsail
That, my friend, was the not so positive part of it . But I was lucky to have Euro's that almost doubled in value to the dollar which collapsed at the time.

But I am not trying to keep that under the table or anything; yes, a bigger boat cost more for the same age and shape of it. But a 15 year old Hunter might not cost more and that is what I brought forward, not a Sundeer. I only referenced to a Sundeer to show that bigger is easier.

All those who state that bigger needs more hands to sail, just repeat what they read in an ancient book. In the days that we didn't have halyard winches they were right. The W32 is a dinosaur too, so I am not surprised that the owners have their hands full with handling it. And of course they will deny that any other boat is easier to handle. Keel hung rudders rule etc.

ciao!
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Old 08-01-2012, 20:11   #133
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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That, my friend, was the not so positive part of it . But I was lucky to have Euro's that almost doubled in value to the dollar which collapsed at the time.

But I am not trying to keep that under the table or anything; yes, a bigger boat cost more for the same age and shape of it. But a 15 year old Hunter might not cost more and that is what I brought forward, not a Sundeer. I only referenced to a Sundeer to show that bigger is easier.

All those who state that bigger needs more hands to sail, just repeat what they read in an ancient book. In the days that we didn't have halyard winches they were right. The W32 is a dinosaur too, so I am not surprised that the owners have their hands full with handling it. And of course they will deny that any other boat is easier to handle. Keel hung rudders rule etc.

ciao!
Nick.
Have you ever sailed on a Westsail 32?
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Old 08-01-2012, 21:07   #134
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Have you ever sailed on a Westsail 32?
Yes I did. It is much like any other Colin Archer based boats and I sailed probably every variant built (mostly in Holland in the 70s and 80s). It sails good for what it is intended to do. It sailed better than many other boats. But it does not sail better than a well built 90's design. I find it a bit sluggish on the rudder. And close quarters manouvering is difficult. I would choose a Hans Christian over a Westsail. But what everybody tends to forget is hat Colin Archer designed the "mother" of all these designs as a pilot boat, not a world cruiser. The design was copied because it worked well... it is from the days that this was how boats were designed. I don't say that is bad. But I also know that naval architects have learned a lot since Colin's days behind the drawing board.

My remarks are about the age of the W32 causing a lot of maintenance and cost. If you think that all the parts of a W32 have eternal life, that is good too

ciao!
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Old 08-01-2012, 21:22   #135
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Yes I did. It is much like any other Colin Archer based boats and I sailed probably every variant built (mostly in Holland in the 70s and 80s). It sails good for what it is intended to do. It sailed better than many other boats. But it does not sail better than a well built 90's design. I find it a bit sluggish on the rudder. And close quarters manouvering is difficult. I would choose a Hans Christian over a Westsail. But what everybody tends to forget is hat Colin Archer designed the "mother" of all these designs as a pilot boat, not a world cruiser. The design was copied because it worked well... it is from the days that this was how boats were designed. I don't say that is bad. But I also know that naval architects have learned a lot since Colin's days behind the drawing board.

My remarks are about the age of the W32 causing a lot of maintenance and cost. If you think that all the parts of a W32 have eternal life, that is good too

ciao!
Nick.
Why would you choose a Hans Christian over a Westsail?
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