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Old 07-01-2012, 19:36   #106
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@BoatMan, sure those things happen. But that doesn't make small boats safer than big ones. A wreck will go down no matter the size and idiots will kill themselves no matter what size boat they sail around with.

But if looked at it objectively, with all else equal, bigger is safer. The aircraft carrier is very safe. I don't know why that is so hard to accept for some...

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Old 08-01-2012, 11:22   #107
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

Since the majority of Cruisers are couples or small crews, I think the bigger is better idea has diminishing returns. The single handed races of the 70s proved that massive boats could get from point A to B, but was it safe or logical? A couple can handle a 60 or 70 foot boat IF NOTHING GOES WRONG. Electric winches, hydraulic windlass, hydraulic roller furling, can do wonders as long as they work, but as soon as something goes bad, the small crew is over its limits. My 110lb wife could handle everything on our 37 footer, but when we moved up to a 44 some of it was too heavy for her. I once was invited to crew on a 102 foot sloop. It was modern and massive and had all the labor saving devices except that on the first tack the hydraulic roller furling let go and the genoa ripped. It took 7 of us to drop the genoa and tie it on deck, and it almost sent one man overboard from flapping. Stronger and more reliable is a much better criteria for cruising than bigger is better. Im not a fan of Westsail 32s(Wetsnail 32s) but they are strong and reliable. Another 2 cents worth.___Grant.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:01   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan
Since the majority of Cruisers are couples or small crews, I think the bigger is better idea has diminishing returns. The single handed races of the 70s proved that massive boats could get from point A to B, but was it safe or logical? A couple can handle a 60 or 70 foot boat IF NOTHING GOES WRONG. Electric winches, hydraulic windlass, hydraulic roller furling, can do wonders as long as they work, but as soon as something goes bad, the small crew is over its limits. My 110lb wife could handle everything on our 37 footer, but when we moved up to a 44 some of it was too heavy for her. I once was invited to crew on a 102 foot sloop. It was modern and massive and had all the labor saving devices except that on the first tack the hydraulic roller furling let go and the genoa ripped. It took 7 of us to drop the genoa and tie it on deck, and it almost sent one man overboard from flapping. Stronger and more reliable is a much better criteria for cruising than bigger is better. Im not a fan of Westsail 32s(Wetsnail 32s) but they are strong and reliable. Another 2 cents worth.___Grant.
I am sorry but you are misinformed. Or you mix up racers with cruisers. Or both. Or you look at boats that are not suitable for a cruising couple. It is what the boat is designed for that is important. My 64' boat single hands much much easier than a W32, even when both go with battery switches in the off position.

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Old 08-01-2012, 12:42   #109
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

I imagine if you polled FORMER W32 owners as a group you'd get very favorable results and recommendations. =) We did.

Nick, I have to laugh at some of your posts. I see you have a Sundeer 64, and you come into a W32 thread and caution people to buy new boats if they plan on having them for a while. It is good advice, but its just not possible a lot of time. Its sort of like some guy driving an exotic Italian roadster showing up at the poor people's used car lot and telling them to go have a look at the Mercedes dealer down the street, since you know, its better value. If someone is looking at a W32, odds are they aren't in the financial game for a 10y/o boat. I know we couldn't when we were boat shopping. Simply put, the W32 was the best set of features we could afford on our meager budget. We knew we'd have to replace EVERYTHING. But like buying a used car, buying an old boat is an acceptance of risks or an acceptance of the need to refurbish.

As far as all the yammering about speed, safety, space and ease of sailing...

The W32 isn't the best at any of them, but it is acceptable at all of them.

1) There are a lot of faster boats out there, but the W32 consistently puts up 100+ mile days on passage. She'll never win local buoy race but she will move better than a lot of people give her credit for.

2) Sure she is small. Accept that smaller boats are inherently less safe than large ones given all other factors being the same. However... The W32 is well built and has a VERY long history of blue water cruising, often in very heavy weather. Our W32 Sundowner, survived a 360 degree roll with the mast still intact. That is solid. It was on her THIRD circumnavigation when she rolled. I've read a great number of accounts from Westsailors that have many many miles under their keels. These boats will get you where you are going in comfort and safety within reason. No question there. Many W32s have rounded the horn, often from East->West. Mike Johnson did it with his transmission sealed on his W32. A lot of people criticize the W32 for its windward ability. How much confidence did this sailor have in his W32 going around the horn with NO ENGINE when going to windward is of the utmost importance?

3) The boat is only a 32 foot. Its interior is less open than the modern designs. You feel snug in it. I'd recommend it for a couple but no more. Dani and I feel comfy in it without problems. The good thing is storage. There is tons and tons and tons of storage on this boat. She can also hold a LOT extra weight and still sail pretty well. Not like a lot of featherweight boats that drastically cut out of their normal performance when weighted down.

4) Ease of single handing. I'm not an experienced sailor, but it would seem to me that just like the safety issue above... Given ALL THINGS THE SAME, a smaller boat would almost always be easier to single hand than a larger boat. But I think a lot of it comes down to amenities. Does the boat have a roller furler, auto pilot, correctly sized and placed winches, down hauls, lines to the cockpit, easy reefing setup, lazy jacks, etc etc.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:53   #110
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
I imagine if you polled FORMER W32 owners as a group you'd get very favorable results and recommendations. =) We did.

Nick, I have to laugh at some of your posts. I see you have a Sundeer 64, and you come into a W32 thread and caution people to buy new boats if they plan on having them for a while. It is good advice, but its just not possible a lot of time. Its sort of like some guy driving an exotic Italian roadster showing up at the poor people's used car lot and telling them to go have a look at the Mercedes dealer down the street, since you know, its better value. If someone is looking at a W32, odds are they aren't in the financial game for a 10y/o boat. I know we couldn't when we were boat shopping. Simply put, the W32 was the best set of features we could afford on our meager budget. We knew we'd have to replace EVERYTHING. But like buying a used car, buying an old boat is an acceptance of risks or an acceptance of the need to refurbish.

As far as all the yammering about speed, safety, space and ease of sailing...

The W32 isn't the best at any of them, but it is acceptable at all of them.

1) There are a lot of faster boats out there, but the W32 consistently puts up 100+ mile days on passage. She'll never win local buoy race but she will move better than a lot of people give her credit for.

2) Sure she is small. Accept that smaller boats are inherently less safe than large ones given all other factors being the same. However... The W32 is well built and has a VERY long history of blue water cruising, often in very heavy weather. Our W32 Sundowner, survived a 360 degree roll with the mast still intact. That is solid. It was on her THIRD circumnavigation when she rolled. I've read a great number of accounts from Westsailors that have many many miles under their keels. These boats will get you where you are going in comfort and safety within reason. No question there. Many W32s have rounded the horn, often from East->West. Mike Johnson did it with his transmission sealed on his W32. A lot of people criticize the W32 for its windward ability. How much confidence did this sailor have in his W32 going around the horn with NO ENGINE when going to windward is of the utmost importance?

3) The boat is only a 32 foot. Its interior is less open than the modern designs. You feel snug in it. I'd recommend it for a couple but no more. Dani and I feel comfy in it without problems. The good thing is storage. There is tons and tons and tons of storage on this boat. She can also hold a LOT extra weight and still sail pretty well. Not like a lot of featherweight boats that drastically cut out of their normal performance when weighted down.

4) Ease of single handing. I'm not an experienced sailor, but it would seem to me that just like the safety issue above... Given ALL THINGS THE SAME, a smaller boat would almost always be easier to single hand than a larger boat. But I think a lot of it comes down to amenities. Does the boat have a roller furler, auto pilot, correctly sized and placed winches, down hauls, lines to the cockpit, easy reefing setup, lazy jacks, etc etc.
Target,
I agree with all you've said above, except #4. You've described a W32 for what it is good at. That should be enough, without unrealistic claims. As to #4, if the boats are setup reasonably well, then some middle ground is probably the easiest to single hand offshore. I'd rather be on 40 footer than a 20 footer. That doesn't mean that a 70 footer is better.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:57   #111
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Target,
I agree with all you've said above, except #4. You've described a W32 for what it is good at. That should be enough, without unrealistic claims. As to #4, if the boats are setup reasonably well, then some middle ground is probably the easiest to single hand offshore. I'd rather be on 40 footer than a 20 footer. That doesn't mean that a 70 footer is better.
Good point Paul. It was the one part of what I was saying I wasn't 100% sure of since I don't have a lot of experience. But what you say makes sense.
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Old 08-01-2012, 13:15   #112
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

You can say what you want, but Westsails sure are purty.
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Old 08-01-2012, 13:19   #113
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Please. Why all the hyperbole? One side seems to think that a W32 could do pretty well in the America's Cup race. The other side seems to think that most sailors could go faster than a W32 by swimming the back-stroke. As usual, both extremes are simply wrong. The truth is in the middle.

Westsail 32s are not fast. They are slower than at least 80% of the boats on the market with the same LWL.

Neither are they as snail slow as the critics would have you believe. They may not do it as fast as most of the boats out there, but they are capable of sailing into the wind, and of racking up a decent number of miles in a day of cruising.

The W32 is a heavy, sturdy boat that was designed for ocean cruising. It does that pretty well. It doesn't win many races, but if I was out in the middle of the Atlantic with a major storm coming my way, and I had no way to avoid it, I would much rather be in a Westsail than most of the other, faster boats that are out there! On the other hand, if I was cruising around the Caribbean or the Med, I would prefer something like a Catalina, which will go faster while providing a more open and modern interior.

These are different boats that serve different purposes. They are apples and oranges. Arguing that one or the other is a "better" boat, without being extremely specific about the conditions under which you are considering them, is--to put it bluntly--STUPID!!!
This thread contains more bullsh*t than a manure spreader. What the original poster wanted was OBJECTIVE opinions. Unfortunately, he got 1,000 opinions of all sorts, most of them utterly worthless. If I was a weekend racer I sure as heck would NOT have a Westsail 32. There is never a best boat answer --- only a LIST of best boats for a specific objective. Get real folks! Go sailing and cut the crap!
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Old 08-01-2012, 13:35   #114
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

A,dollar,s worth.The fellow who sailed into the Perfect Strom docked his boat at my next door neighbor's after recovery.I spoke with him briefly about the sitituation ect.He stated he never feared that his bost would come thru OK,He was right,The boat looked none the worse for wear.My Dollars worth.
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Old 08-01-2012, 13:35   #115
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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This thread contains more bullsh*t than a manure spreader. What the original poster wanted was OBJECTIVE opinions. Unfortunately, he got 1,000 opinions of all sorts, most of them utterly worthless. If I was a weekend racer I sure as heck would NOT have a Westsail 32. There is never a best boat answer --- only a LIST of best boats for a specific objective. Get real folks! Go sailing and cut the crap!
Amen!
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Old 08-01-2012, 13:47   #116
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
This thread contains more bullsh*t than a manure spreader. What the original poster wanted was OBJECTIVE opinions. Unfortunately, he got 1,000 opinions of all sorts, most of them utterly worthless. If I was a weekend racer I sure as heck would NOT have a Westsail 32. There is never a best boat answer --- only a LIST of best boats for a specific objective. Get real folks! Go sailing and cut the crap!
Is that your OBJECTIVE opinion or just more manure spread on top? Actually, the OP did not specify objective vs. subjective opinions. In any case, who is qualified to give objective opinions on the matter? Someone who owns a W32? No, I don't think so. Someone who's never sailed one? No, that doesn't sound right either. Someone who says they wouldn't have a W32 as a racer when the OP asked about a liveaboard cruiser? Sounds like just another useless opinion to moi.
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Old 08-01-2012, 14:09   #117
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Originally Posted by Target9000
Nick, I have to laugh at some of your posts. I see you have a Sundeer 64, and you come into a W32 thread and caution people to buy new boats if they plan on having them for a while. It is good advice, but its just not possible a lot of time. Its sort of like some guy driving an exotic Italian roadster showing up at the poor people's used car lot and telling them to go have a look at the Mercedes dealer down the street, since you know, its better value.
I am glad you recognize the humor in my posts but the rich guy vs poor guy is definitely not true. Sure, I have a Sundeer, but I do not tell people to go for a more expensive boat... that is your lively imagination at work

What I say is to go for a bigger, younger boat. If, to fit that into your budget, it means you will have no water maker, radar, dinghy-outboard, plotter, etc., so be it, go without them. There is nothing to make up for the age of a 30 year old boat.. it's going to be tired very soon.

I'd rather have a 15 year old Hunter, Catalina, CSY, Bavaria than a 30 year old W32. Yes there are exceptions as some W32 owners will have been working on their boat all those years, keeping it strong. But I am talking in a general sense, the average 30 year old ones.

If everything but a 30 year old boat is too expensive, it might be better to first save up a bit more.

ciao!
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Old 08-01-2012, 14:15   #118
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Is that your OBJECTIVE opinion or just more manure spread on top? Actually, the OP did not specify objective vs. subjective opinions. In any case, who is qualified to give objective opinions on the matter? Someone who owns a W32? No, I don't think so. Someone who's never sailed one? No, that doesn't sound right either. Someone who says they wouldn't have a W32 as a racer when the OP asked about a liveaboard cruiser? Sounds like just another useless opinion to moi.
Of course it's objective!!! This thread (and almost all others that ask for opinions) is just an example of what results from requests for opinions --- lots of verbiage, with little or no content. Obviously the opinions of those who own "Boat A" are disqualified, as arethe opinions of those who have never sailed one. So perhaps respondents should "fess up" at the outset "I've never sailed or owned one of these puppies, but my opinion is..." If I want help in fixing an engine, most respondents to my request will have some direct experience. But if I'm asking for people to tell my what boat to buy, don't expect much help. The only opinion that matters is the buyer's and that will consist of such factors as appearance, reputation (whatever that means), aesthetics, aesthetics and aesthetics, and what pleases his eye. Far be it from me to add more sh*t to an already loaded wagon.
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Old 08-01-2012, 14:23   #119
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

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Of course it's objective!!! This thread (and almost all others that ask for opinions) is just an example of what results from requests for opinions --- lots of verbiage, with little or no content. Obviously the opinions of those who own "Boat A" are disqualified, as arethe opinions of those who have never sailed one. So perhaps respondents should "fess up" at the outset "I've never sailed or owned one of these puppies, but my opinion is..." If I want help in fixing an engine, most respondents to my request will have some direct experience. But if I'm asking for people to tell my what boat to buy, don't expect much help. The only opinion that matters is the buyer's and that will consist of such factors as appearance, reputation (whatever that means), aesthetics, aesthetics and aesthetics, and what pleases his eye. Far be it from me to add more sh*t to an already loaded wagon.
My theory is the only objective opinion out there is the one who comes from the guy who prefaces his comments by saying everyone else is spewing manure. That must make him right!
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Old 08-01-2012, 14:27   #120
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Re: Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

Hmm, I think Nick is correct with his last post. Just consider the original post:

My wife and I are looking at buying a westsail32 to sail and have as a live-aboard, we have also looked at Cape George Cutters and a True North 34. Does anyone have any opinions (of course you do), this will be our first sailboat which we also intend to sail off shore (circum. at some point). Are all westsails deck step masts or just with some of the kit boats? Rob

This is there first yacht and they want to live on board and circum at some point. However, a first yacht is rarely the last so perhaps something else would be better as a first yacht, particularly to live on board with fewer maintenance issues.

The OP hasn't logged on since November btw.

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